How do you set the engine back 8 inches to make a dirt track racer?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: How do you set the engine back 8 inches to make a dirt track racer?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:11 am:

Hey guys, I just read something interesting:

"Model T Dirt Track Racer

Starting with a basic $450 Model T, for an additional $1000 or so in speed equipment and some hard work you could soon be racing on the popular "Dirt Track" circuit, perhaps even winning back your investment!

Typically the chassis was lowered four inches, called "underslinging", the wheelbase was slightly extended, and an additional front cross member riveted to move the motor back eight inches for better weight distribution. Wire wheels were almost mandatory, but the mechanical brakes on the rear wheels only still led to some "wild rides"!

The basic 40 HP motor was "hopped up" to over 70 HP with a Roof or RAJO Overhead Valve Conversion (OHV), a hot cam, balanced crankshaft with pressure oiling, and side-draft or up-draft carburetors.

These little cars were very competitive, often exceeding eighty miles/hour. To quote an advertisement from the period: "Able to achieve BREATHTAKING performance of 15 to 50 MPH in LESS than two city blocks!"

My question is, how do you do these things stated above? This article has piqued my interest in turning my chassis into a dirt track racer instead of a speedster/race mix.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Putnam, Bluffton, Ohio on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:16 am:

I don't know where you read the article but I think the editor lacked some basic Model T technical knowledge. The Basic Model T motor only had 20 HP, not 40HP as in the Model A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:24 am:

yeah, I had noticed that they got the HP wrong too. The idea of setting the engine back to distribute weight better seems interesting though.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:25 am:

I did one and here is how I set it back. I cut 6 inches out of the drive shaft. Cut 6 inches out of the housing also at the point where the tube has the least amount of flaring or widening. Close to the engine end. *Make sure when the shaft is welded back together straight and deep. If you are going to hop the engine up as much as your talking, I would suggest you have a new shaft machined rather then weld the old one. I used a stock engine minus the mag on 12 volt and it had plenty of power.

Then use a second front cross member and bolt to frame to rest the front of the engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:41 am:

Let me add, moving the engine back was more of an experimental thing than it actually made any difference. If anything, looking at old photos, moving the engine back cause the frame to slump in the middle. You will see many old photos of cars with a brace along the bottom of the side rail. To me, and again you will see in many photo's the real advantage of moving the engine back moves the peddles back allowing the driver to sit farther back, putting more weight over the rear axle. If you are long legged like me I was able to sit just 8 inches shy of the axle.

Let me also add that when you move the engine than you have to engineer the timer and fuel rods, the radiator mounts, brake rods etc. If you are good at re-engineering go for it. Would I do it again? No.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:33 am:

Thanks for the information. Hearing how it's done there's no way I could pull something like that off myself. In lieu of that, this was the other design I really liked (i've been spit balling speedster ideas for my body for weeks now) It's the green #15 racer at 1:30. Love that design

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQN0rTe5eeg&list=UUlE7mLVMlj16ExDtDdcdAxA&index=4 &feature=plcp

My question in regards to this is: do I have to lower the steering column, extend the pedals or anything? It looks like the seats might be set back a little, maybe a little over a foot, but not too bad. The engine looks to be standard location, as does the hand lever. What kind of adjustments would I need to make for something like this? Thanks again guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 01:01 pm:

Yes I also like that design. If you were to ask me, if your going to build a road speedster I would leave things as is, mechanics wise, and just move your seat back as far as you can comfortable. You can heat the peddle shafts and bend them toward you an inch or two.

If you want to see the first racer I built, look just a few threads down to find "Buck T Special" or right now look on ebay under T's and you will see it on there being sold by the guy I sold it too.

I also forgot to say, when moving your engine back you have to lenghten and re-angle your wish bone. It was fun to do it once but I would not do it again. You have to have a torch and a welder would help. Good luck with a project.
I currently am building a Model A Boattail to drive across the US. I love speedsters. When I'm done with it, I'm going back to T speedsters.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 01:12 pm:

sorry, Yes you will want to lower the steering with the kit you can buy that has the wedge at the lower end of the steering shaft and the wedge at the firewall. If you don't lower the steering, it looks goofy. You can extend the peddles by heating and bending the peddle shafts and or peddle extentions. You can just seat back as far as you can and still drive with comfort. Just your lower seating in a speedster will move your butt back a good 6 plus inches. If you leave the mechanics (engine) in the correct place(don't move it) you will have save alot of time building and one H of alot of headackes.
Besides, one of the appeals to that design and not moving the engine back is the LLOOONNGGG hood. Makes the car look longer, sleeker.
If I can help in anyway just email.


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