Stock Generator & 12 Volts. Ron?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Stock Generator & 12 Volts. Ron?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 12:48 pm:

My friend's T had an alternator go bad on him. Needing to have something on the car for an upcoming tour, I installed one of his spare Model T generators, along with a known good cutout. We started the T and immediately, the ammeter pegged at 20A. I adjusted the third brush all the way back to the min. charge position and now just under 20A. Why so much? Then it dawned on me, he's using a 12V battery.
So, needing to do something sooner rather than later, I loosened the 4 screws that lock in the brush plate and began to rotate the brush plate towards me, (or clockwise if you're looking into the back end of the generator, ccw if you're standing at the front of the car). Yes, I knew this was not really the correct thing to do or, at the very best, that I was not going about it in the proper way. However, it did get the charge rate down somewhere between 5A & 10A. Still more than I wanted but probably good enough until better methods are applied.

Therefore, the question is, what are the better methods to get the charge rate down for use with a 12V battery? Don't bother suggesting the use of a 6V battery, that's what I would do if it were my car, but it's not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:41 pm:

Putting the brushes out of phase is about all you can do from the outside. The image below explains why phase alignment is necessary for optimum generation. What you did is just the reverse. Perhaps re-positioning the brush plate past the stops will provide more out of phase adjustment.

Did you happen to check the generator output voltage at the time (at the gen post)? I'm guessing it was 15v +/- a few tenths. Adding a ceramic resistor in series with the field coils might help reduce the voltage and current too.

One thing for sure is that you don't want to allow the Model T generator to run more than about 120 Watts maximum for short periods. And for 12v charging you need 13-14v. That puts the charge current at a maximum of about 8.5A for short periods. I would try to keep it below 5A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:43 pm:

Ops. Forgot the image.

Brush Phase


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 03:40 pm:

when i first installed the gen i rebuilt i had to dumb it down a little because it charged too much. adjusted the brush plate just like you did

without doing so it chrged at 15 amps with the third brush all the way toward me.

but T generators dont put out enough amperage...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 04:45 pm:

Jerry
The brushplate lead or null point was probably not originally set correctly when the spare generator was rebuilt.
Matthew
The Model T generator puts out more than adequate current for a stock Model T driven in today's environment, but not enough for a Packard V12. grin
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

oh I dont know about that...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:48 pm:

Gosh Matt, how many amps do you need to charge a battery that took 5 seconds to start a car?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:32 pm:

haha, i was refering to the packard v12 part, i swear some day Ron i will hook a model T generator up to a packard v12, just because you said it :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 09:11 am:

Ah, I see.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 10:28 am:

How about a stock T generator with 6 volts? Problem solved!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:26 pm:

Larry,

My last line in my original question: " Don't bother suggesting the use of a 6V battery, that's what I would do if it were my car, but it's not."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

Ron,

I suspect you're probably correct about that. Are you saying then that perhaps I did the right thing, but maybe in a sort of clumsy, unscientific way?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Patterson-Nicholasville, Kentucky on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 01:11 pm:

Jerry
Yes you did.
The Model T generator brush plate lead or null point setting procedure can be very tricky. I do it all the time and sometimes it trips me up. Sometimes backing into the correct setting can be helpful.
Also be mindful of Ken's admonition about keeping the current setting lower using 12 Volts.
Please notice I did not mention "?" Volts, I am just saying! Grin
Ron the Coilman


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

As always Ron, and other responders as well, thank you.


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