Timing gear question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Timing gear question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Mays on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:24 pm:

It has been suggested to me that a noise coming from the engine of our '15 touring could be caused by the timing gear. (original engine). It has also been suggested that the timing gear be changed to nylon to make the engine noise go away. I would appreciate any comments on the question. Thanks,


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 02:49 pm:

Some people have success with the nylon gears. Others like brass or aluminum. Others will tell you to try to find a good original steel gear which is probably the best way to go.
After all Ford used steel.
Another thing to consider is changing the crankshaft gear and timing gear at the same time.
One thing to remember a Model T engine is what it is and its not the quietest in the world.
If it were mine and the crankshaft gear is still decent I would use a aluminum gear and live with the minor noise.
I am sure others will give you their advice and it will be OK too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 03:05 pm:

I run an aluminum and would rather have noise than a toothless timing gear.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 03:24 pm:

the best way to make your T run smooth as silk is remove the engine and install a v12 packard.

some people think this is to much work though and usually just live with a little noise.

although if your engine is truly original im pretty sure it should have straight cut timing gears. which are neat and a specifically early thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 05:51 pm:

Some will tell you they've used the nylon gear with no trouble. Good for them. But I had a very unfortunate and expensive experience with a nylon timing gear in a Suburban. Granted, that's not a T, but nylon is nylon. I'm replacing the defunct fiber timing gear in my Fordor with a Ford iron gear. If I want a quiet car I'll save up my dough and get a Stanley or a Baker Electric.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Allan Richard Bennett on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 08:49 pm:

John, if your car has original gears for a 1915 model, they will be straight cut steel gears and they are a mite noisy at the best of times. As far as I know, nobody makes straight cut timing gears of any material, so you will have to replace both the cam gear and the crankshaft gear if you go to an alternative.

The nylon gears are supposed to be quiet, like the inferior fibre gears which gave so many problems.
I'd rather go with an aluminium gear, as I have used these for many years without any problems.

Hope this helps.

Allan from down under.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

It is best to replace both the crankshaft and camshaft gears at the same time. Running one new gear and one old gear can cause the new gear to wear faster. Bronze and aluminum do not make much noise and will last a long time if they mesh properly. I would stay away from fiber.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

I meant Nylon.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:14 pm:

why doesnt somebody make a steel one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:18 pm:

Steven:

I agree with replacing both crank & cam gears....
But what is your experience with Nylon cam gears ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

Honestly I don't have any experience with Nylon gears but, metal gears have proven to run for thousands of miles without a problem so why experiment?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:37 pm:

I hate roadside restorations.
Use a metal gear. The noise is not that bad.

If you are running overhead valves it is highly recommended that you have metal gears.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 09:40 pm:

Nylon gears work well and are not noisey at all. I have run them on two different cars and they have worked good. I tried both aluminum and bronze and they work well but are quite noisey. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:21 pm:

I run both a bronze and aluminum gear and have not noticed any excessive noise from either car but, they can be heard when the engine starts when hand cranking. Seriously the Nylon will only eliminate one out of countless other model T noises.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:30 pm:

I have installed the nylon cam gears with new steel crankshaft gears on many Model T engines. None has experienced any problems, and that combination is quiet as a church mouse. What moved me to use the first nylon one was installing a new aluminum one, which I used for about 10 miles and couldn't stand the noise. To be fair, I did not replace the c/s gear on that one, which I'm sure contributed to its being noisy. But I don't care to try another one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 10:33 pm:

"I run an aluminum and would rather have noise than a toothless timing gear."

I would too, Doug, but thankfully, those are not our only two choices.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:28 pm:

are you guys sure you are installing these gears right? cuz ive never heard the timing gears on any model T, ive run phenolic, aluminum, and steel, never have i ever noticed the timing gears. but if i listen close enough i can here the tappets tapping.

there arent very many situations where you cant get home in a model T. but losing the cam gear pretty much leaves you stuck.

my choice would be 1. steel 2. bronze 3. aluminum 4. nylon 5. "Fiber"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:40 pm:

If anybody has any of those noisy old NOS iron gears, I'd be happy to trade some nice quiet fiber gears for them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:48 pm:

ditto steve, are your quiet gears the super special friction drive gears that dont have teeth?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, August 27, 2012 - 11:57 pm:

I have one of those. Totally silent. But I have three that are "good".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 09:39 am:

Just wondering if anybody has thought about repoducing a 'steel' timing gear.
Steel crankshaft gears are repoduced so that means it could be done. When I was in my 20's in the sixties the only timing gears you could get were the fiber type that I remember.
And I do remember they were advertised as being silent.
So I guess the thinking was silence was the way to go.
But I guess the steel type wont be as silent.
Makes you wonder.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 10:04 am:

I have quite a few good original steel gears, Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 11:19 am:

Are the originals steel or cast iron?
I have an original out in the shop and I thought it is cast iron, now I'm not so sure, I guess I'll have to go have another looksee.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 12:24 pm:

Ken,
It's cast iron.

John,
I suppose they're not made of steel now because aluminum & bronze are more likely better choices anyway and are probably easier to machine.

Any sort of metal gear will be noisy when run against a used crankshaft gear. When I run all new gears, i.e. crank, cam & generator, all is quiet. Silent? No. Quiet? Yes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

If all of the other noises would be quiet, I could probably hear my timing gear. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Seager on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 01:54 pm:

I have heard of no bad reports on the nylon gears. Mike


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Yoder on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 - 02:19 pm:

I have run 88,000 miles with fiber or white? nylon gears. The only time I had teeth fail is when My crankshaft broke. The fiber gear May just have saved the Block by giving up some teeth. This is on a 1924 touring with Generator/ or alternator.


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