8 volt battery in my 1921 TOURING?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 8 volt battery in my 1921 TOURING?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 01:52 pm:

Hello, my '21 Model T Touring car currently has a dead 8 volt battery installed. Should I replace it with similar? This is my first model T, any help appreciated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 02:04 pm:

Not if you want to use the lamps - 9 volts charging from the generator would shorten the life of 6v lamps drastically. Find what's wrong with the wiring to the starter that most likely caused the chance to 8 volts.. Try starting with a 6 or 12 v battery (no lights on if you use 12v) and feel where it gets hot after some cranking on the starter - that's likely where you have a bad connection - or a bad starter switch. Why not install a ground cable from the engine to the frame too..

If you choose a 6 volt battery you need to reset the charging rate with the third brush on the generator. The club sells (among others) a good manual describing how to fix all the electric issues on a T: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/service-manuals


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 02:12 pm:

"chance" should be change.
If you have a bare bones non electric model with magneto powered headlamps and oil parking & tail lamps with the battery just for igniton when crank starting then voltage 6, 8 or 12 is whatever you choose :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 02:15 pm:

8 volt batteries are installed to cover other problems. If the car is in good running condition 6 volt is just fine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 02:16 pm:

Wow, I must type really slow. The other two beat me by 11 minutes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 02:53 pm:

gerrit

all good advice. Maybe I missed it in other's responses, but just to let you know, if you end up converting back to 6V, you will also have to plan on purchasing a 6V cutout, or better yet, a 6V voltage regulator to replace the 8V cutout on the generator.

welcome to the affliction!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 03:25 pm:

The cost of 6 volt battery's are high. 8 volt batteries must be more yet. A friend of mine gave me his 8 volt from a Fordson tractor with the regulator and it was a great upgrade for whatever I put it on then ??? He changed to 12 volts. 6 volt works but I run 12 with an alternator. Brighter lights by far. Always 13 volts with lights on or off. Battery cost me 32 bucks, alt was 130 and lights were like 8 instead of $110 Batt. over $100 to rebuild the generator and another whatever to go thru the starter so it works like new. I dont care what any of you say it is a good upgrade. 6 volt will work on a modern car too just not as good. So if you are not a purist use what you want and enjoy the dang thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 04:04 pm:

I think the quality of 8 volt batteries doesn't come close to that of GOOD Group 1 6 volt batteries.
I think I paid about $80 per for the best 6 volt batteries Carquest has and I'm glad I did.
I've had great luck with Carquest batteries since Delco prices went into orbit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 04:24 pm:

First off--I'm REALLY glad I joined this forum. Thanks for all the advice. Very useful stuff. I am in the "getting the car running" phase, so I may go with the 8 volt for now until I have a better feel for what's going on. Also--this is totally unrelated, but is the oil fill for the crankcase over on the left side of the motor, near a pulley-looking thing? Will post a pic with this if I can get my slow connection to cooperate.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 04:39 pm:

The oil filler is right in front of the generator.

As Doug pointed out, eight volt batteries are often a Bandaid applied instead of fixing what's wrong. Many times, maybe most times, the problem is something very simple, like a poor ground (cured by cleaning and tightening all contacts) or having twelve volt cables (cured by using six volt cables). Less often, the starter motor needs fixing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 04:40 pm:

The oil fill is on the left if you're looking from the front of the car, but on the right as normally stated. It's a pull-up cap in about a 2 inch hole, just behind the timer (round thingy with 4 wires) and in front of the generator (looks like a starter but has a small wire running to it). The engine and transmission use the same oil. You'll find a drain plug on the bottom of the transmission case. You'll find two 'petcocks' on the rear of the transmission, right side. The correct amount of oil is determined by it running out the bottom petcock, but not the top. That's quite a wide range, but the T is very forgiving -- unless you let it get below the bottom petcock. Be sure the petcocks are not plugged with dirt, by running a wire into them when open.

Whatever you do, don't ask on this forum what kind of oil to use! It'll touch off a thread you will never hear the end of. Boiling down all those opinions, use whatever you use in your other car, or the cheapest thing you can find. You cannot buy an oil today that is not at least 20 times better than anything available in 1921!

By the way, I second the notion of going to 6 volts. Then, find out what caused a previous owner to stick an 8 volt battery in it, and repair the problem. It will probably be a bad connection or a too-small cable.

The only "weak sister" part of the starting circuit is the button itself. Most of us put in a solenoid switch and let the floor button activate it. The cost is minimal, the creativity of mounting the solenoid is fun, and the peace of mind you get by removing the one and only troublesome part from the circuit will be worth the trouble.

Remember, we're here to help!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 05:24 pm:

Peter, thanks for the thorough response--and many thanks to all others, too. Yes, it is probably a simple fix to get the car back to 6 volt status, as the wiring is not so complicated to begin with. I'll look at the solenoid/starter switch combo, am sure this will be useful. For the oil fill, I was put off by the filler being on what looked like another component of the car--like a power steering pump on a modern car. And I'll steer clear of the motor oil question, since I already looked at the "operating instructions" with the car and it said any good, "light oil" would do the trick. When I downsize the photo file, I'll add a picture. It's a good, original car, a nice project. I'll check in again soon, I'm sure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 06:45 pm:

Peter, I'm GLAD you mentioned the solenoid thing!
I've been thinking about just that as the starter button in my '27 Tudor is in the way.
It doesn't bother me in the other T's, only the Tudor.
I want to get rid of the floor switch altogether and I think I will....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 07:51 pm:

Here she is. '21 Touring


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 08:49 pm:

She's a beaut!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, August 29, 2012 - 09:17 pm:

Here's something for all new T owners:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 07:20 am:

Peter, thanks--I know she's no show car, but I've always been mostly interested in "drivers." Something to load the kids into and drive a mile for some ice cream. Steve, thanks for the advice. A friend who's an old-car mechanic and restorer told me the same thing last night as we were looking at the Mac's parts catalogue. It runs around 35 bucks, will definitely buy it. I'll check in as I make progress and no doubt get carried away with this project. Thanks again!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Ostbye on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 08:48 am:

Your car looks nice. BTW I love what Peter wrote here.

Whatever you do, don't ask on this forum what kind of oil to use! It'll touch off a thread you will never hear the end of. Boiling down all those opinions, use whatever you use in your other car, or the cheapest thing you can find. You cannot buy an oil today that is not at least 20 times better than anything available in 1921!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 11:57 am:

This is a good read;
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/8538.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 08:18 am:

Mark, thanks. I did just get it running but cut it off because I hadn't gone through all the precautions yet. Also need to check cooling system for any internal leaks. Car's been sitting quite awhile. I appreciate the link--a really helpful checklist.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William Rowles on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 09:06 am:

I replaced the battery in my '20 runabout this year. When i went to Tractor Supply for a 6 volt battery, all they had on the shelf was one 8 volt battery. Decided to try it. I discussed the situation with a friend who is an electrical engineer and he said the headlight/tail light bulbs may be the only significant problem. So far I have not had a head light or tail/brake light bulb fail but have not driven it at night using lights only short time to test them. My friend made an adapter for my 12 volt battery charger so I can periodically charge the battery to full charge specific gravity specs. The starter, generator, and spark coils seem to like the increased voltage judging by their performance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Friday, August 31, 2012 - 03:41 pm:

William, thanks. Started the car with the 8 volt, all seems good now but haven't run it much. Will thoroughly go over the wiring as suggested above to iron out any problems.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration