Do Rocky Mountain brakes have A/C cast into the "C" shaped brackets or do I Actually have A/C accessory brakes ?
I'm guessing they are A/C : they are on a 1926 frame with large drums and are Rod, not cable operated . Does anyone actually have the printed instructions that come with Large drum , rod operated A/C brakes ?
I know what I have done to them has improved how they were set up with sloppy linkage , etc. Also , I am in the process of putting back my Transmission brake band that the last owner or builder left out . Is it correct to have the transmission brake still in and functional with A/C brakes , as with Rocky Mountain brakes ?
Lots of information here , but with Rocky Mountains, A/C and other brands, and many folks referring as all of them as "Rocky Mountains", its hard to sort it all out to properly set these up the way they should have been originally.
Hey Dan,
The repro Rocky Mountain Brakes were first made and sold by Jack Sunderlin here in SoCal. For the small drum rear ends '25 and earlier they were pretty much an exact copy of the originals. He began making brakes for the '26-'27s and copied the design of the accessory AC brand brakes. This is where the horseshoe shaped bracket and the "self energizing" design came from. I have an early set of these brakes on one of my cars. I bought them from him some time around 1976. At some point either he or Bud Williams, who now owns the company, adapted the self energizing design to the '25 and earlier brakes and dropped the AC name in favor of the Rocky Mountain name. You would have either original ACs or the early version of the repros. Sorry but I couldn't tell you how to distinguish between the two. Hope this helps a bit.
Bryan
Dan - I can only tell you how the Rockies are set up on my '27 depot hack, however, I firmly believe that they were set up correctly by the previous owner/builder and have since been adjusted by Steve Tomaso at "Steve's "T" Works, Milton, Washington.
The Rockies do most, if not all of the work on a normal stop. In the case of a hard/emergency stop, a heavier brake application will result in the transmission band brake also adding to the overall brake application. Also, it is also important to have a working transmission band brake for effective braking while backing up, as the Rockies are not very effective while backing,...to say the least, or, for that matter, they're not very effective when wet either. All of which makes it important to have a working and properly adjusted transmission band brake.
My $.02 for what it's worth,.........harold
Thanks for your help guys ! Harold, Do your brakes have the A/C name on the horseshoe shaped piece? Any yours are rod actuated, not cable?
I have it adjusted per all the posts here, so on the hand brake the internal parking brake shoes come on just a bit before the external "Rocky Mountain" brakes. Basically how Harold states it . I just got the bands put on right after taking them off as someone put them on Backwards with the removable ears on the passenger / right side instead of the driver / left side. I also put a transmission brake band back in that was taken out by someone in the past. I need to adjust tomorrow... I found out what a pain in the !@#$%
they are to fish around and put the ears on and put back together. A few choice words were said tonight . Please see my other post in regards to an extra washer at the end of the low speed adjuster between the adjuster and the spring.
Short history of Rocky Mountain brakes. They were originally manufactured in the '20s for small drum model Ts. Later, they made changes to fit large drum Ts, still while Ts were being produced. I don't know when they stopped manufacturing.
Sometime in the late '50s or early '60s, someone began manufacturing Rocky Mountain brakes again. They were nearly exact copies of the originals. You have to know what to look for to tell the originals from the repos.
Up until that time, RMs did not look anything like they do today. (Not a bit!)
About that time, someone else began reproducing A/C outside brakes. They were just one of the dozens of other companies that made improved brakes for Ts during the '20s. Look on page 32 of "Model T Ford, In Speed and Sport" book. Note, the picture shows the emergency brake still connected separately.
Somewhere along the line, someone decides to make an "improved self energizing" set of brakes for Ts. Personally, I think it was a bad idea.
The original Rocky Mountain brakes did not lend themselves easily to the needed modifications. The A/C did, and they got renamed. Why? I do not know? I wish they would have named them something else.
I do not like the "new" Rocky mountain brake setup. There are several design weaknesses in them. Not the least of which is holding a car on a hill.
My '24 coupe does have the new RMs in it. But whoever put them in, made major changes that eliminated several of the weaknesses. They still won't hold on a hill. But when the car was restored over 30 years ago, they used a '26 large drum rear end. That holds the car on a hill. Since there are a lot of hills where I live, that is important to me.
Most people leave the transmission band in and connected. They adjust it to grab if you push the pedal REALLY hard. Some, including me, do not like that idea. The adjustment can wear one way or the other so that things won't work the way you expect them to. Regardless of whether you use the transmission brake or not, the potential exists to lose your brakes and not have a functioning secondary or emergency brake.
The original type Rocky Mountain brakes were, and are, the best.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
In my world A/C stands for Air Conditioning. I'm trying to figure out what Air Conditioning has to do with brakes. Is AC a brand name? (I'm 80 years old and still have lots to learn.)
Yes Hal, A/C was a brand, Like A/C spark plugs, though I don't know if they are related .
Hot enough here in Santa Cruz the past few days to Run the AC......as in air conditioning.
A-C Brakes, these fit directly to the Ford small drum.
Same drum style (1923)
Improved Car style (1926) that fit to the new larger Ford drum.
"Rocky Mountain" originally sold by the Tractor Train Co. (1922) These were the first rear accessory brakes to feature a 'large drum' , like those used on bigger car of the period that had external brakes. This large drum has many more sq in of braking surface over a smaller drum outside brake. The large drum featured the small size fitted to it to keep the Ford emergency brakes intact.
Present day modern repro of the "Rocky Mountain" style, with the larger drum when used with the pre-'25 rear axle
Tank's guys
Dan Knoll, I don't think your question of what is stamped on the "C" shaped piece was answered. I have a set on my 21 touring that I purchased new in 1970. They have the larger drum that fits over the small drum and Have the "Rocky Mountain" designation cast in. Then I have a set on my 27 Tudor That I put on about 1990 that has the "AC" designation cast in. Both are the AC "improved design" style but were marketed as Rocky Mountain.
Both of mine are rod operated.
Not to hijack this topic, but... My 23 coupe has big drum Rockies installed. When this was done, they removed the small drum, shoes, and actuating rods. Is it possible to reinstall all the original small drum parts along with the big drums and have a parking brake that will work on a hill? I have a steep driveway, and when I back out I need someone else there to block the wheels. This would sure make life easier!
Bob, As stated above you can re-install the small drum and brakes. You will need longer hub bolts which the vendors have lined cast brake shoes. I don't have the shoes in my 21 Touring. The Rockies hold just fine on a slight slope. But I won't trust them on anything steep. I have the lined shoes that will go in this winter.
In 1989 I bought a set of external brakes for my rear wheels of the 26 roadster. This car has the standard 26 large drum and the brakes fit to it. I bought these brakes from Chaffin's Garage. They have the AC stamped on the u shaped attachment to the two bolts which hold the radius rods to the end of the axle. In 2000 I bought a set of Rocky Mountain brakes from the Rocky Mountain Brake co in Temecula for a 26 Touring. The brakes are identical to the earlier ones which say AC. The only difference between the two sets is that the AC have woven lining and the Rocky Mountain have hard lining. Both sets are rod operated. I suspect that Dan has the same kind I have on the Roadster.
Norm
Before Tractor Train bought out the company, they were manufactured by Rocky Mountain Steel Products Co. Both were in Los Angeles. Tractor train added an additional mounting tab at the top of the unit, which I have seen, but never have seen one of these units on a car. It appears a hole had to be drilled in the backing plate for it. It is pictured above.
Thanks guys !