Should I Paint my T?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Should I Paint my T?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 08:57 am:

I just received my July/August 2012 Vintage Ford Magazine. All the ads in the back have lots of T's that are prior to 1926 (in the teens) that have different color paint jobs and are not black. However, they have nice prices on them.
I have a 1924 Turtleback Roadster that is black with cracked paint. Does it hurt the value if I paint it another color? I thought it would, but I am new at this and would like to know from people who have been in this community for a while?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 09:19 am:

I'm new to this hobby (or obsession), but here's my spin on paint:

If you don't care about being period correct or original, paint it whatever color you want. There are enough black T's out there. If you're in it for an investment, you might be in it for the wrong reasons. T's may never be super-valuable, but they'll always be super-fun.

Just my opinion though. Maybe some of the veterans have a different view.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 09:42 am:

I'm new as well, but seems like most all questions will be responded to with a wide range of answers .. from the most exact, period, correct ... to .. 'hey .. it's yours .. do what you want!'

If you plan on keeping it for a long time, then I think the value is in what YOU want out of your T. Seems like the highest value from others, might be placed on those in the most 'closest-to-original', replacing parts only when necessary. To some this would include 'rust and all'. Next step is a high value on 'frame off - down to the bolt' restoration, again ... keeping all original parts, if at all possible. Then, there's a sliding scale, all the way through to chopping the thing up to make some sort of custom vehicle out of it ... rat rod, etc.

Mine is/was a 24 Turtleback Roadster as well. I debated as to how far I might take it, and how and when what parts would be replaced. I have some cracked paint here and there, but nothing structual. I went after it with safety in mind first ... I needed to start, stop, and point on demand. That meant rebuilding brakes, bushings (that'll be an ongoing process! LOL), bearings, wiring, coil box, horn, etc, etc. I'm just about done with the bulk of that. Then I decided I could really use a pickup more than a turtledeck. I could make it big enough to hold a few musicians, and with the right 'flare boards', even a sheet of plywood or two. So, function started pushing originality a little out of the way. I did the same process on the pickup bed, but there is such a range of beds out there , and many were built by the owner for what he needed/wanted, anyway, why not me?

Next will be 'electrified' tail lights with brake and turn signals. ANYthing that will keep people aware that I'm there, and what I'm doing .. can't be 'wrong' ... but may not be period. I won't use chrome, or modern looking pieces .. probably electrified oil lamps in some combination.

As to the paint? I don't mind the crackling .. it's another badge of honor for the ol' girl. Then again .. what is the chance of your (or my) car's paint being original, anyway? I want to take folks out for rides, including the grand kids, and want to invite folks to come up and touch it, and ride in it. If I spent lots of time and money on a pristine paint job, I would probably be much less likely to be so inviting.

So ... practice and work that is to be done on your vehicle, is a matter of form-to-function. What form the work you do on your car, needs to primarily match it's function. This is almost always a compromise.

Hmm .. a long ramble with the bottom line being, as usual .. personal preference. ! :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 10:35 am:

Certainly, I didn't buy it for the investment but for the novelty and fun of it. I had 2 model A's in the past and ran up on this Model T and wanted to piece it back together and get it running after 35 years of sitting. I have been through the replacing all electrical and all mechanical (except for motor). It runs great and use it for the fun times with kids and local parades. I now start my hardest job ever changing bands because they are wearing down to fast. Paint is cracked but pretty shiny. Does add to the period look. Thanks for the thoughts.
Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 11:22 am:

"Does it hurt the value if I paint it another color?"

Dan -- What it does is eliminate many otherwise interested buyers, so yes, it might affect the value. Reducing the number of potential buyers could limit the price it will bring.

As the others have said, it's your car and you can do what you want with it. But you did ask the question, so I have tried to answer it.

You can always enjoy the car for some time with its paint as-is, while you consider your options.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 11:40 am:

If resale isn't a consideration, it's a matter of personal preference. At one end of the personal preference range are the pure of heart, who strive to make every detail "correct". At the other end are the creative folks who come up with variations and adaptations that astonish all who behold. Most of us are somewhere in between, willing to compromise originality to varying degrees. Color scheme is no different. If you're near the "pure" end of the spectrum, you want colors that were actually used in the early years and in 1926-27, and black in between. If correctness is less important to you, any color will do.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 11:55 am:

As far as the bands go Dan once you have the new ones in and adjusted, get in the habit of pushing the pedal down solidly when moving. With a bit of practice you'll know how much throttle you need and how quick to press down with your foot. Slipping the band causes them to wear faster, and driving in a parade can cause unnecessary wear if those in front of you are constantly stopping and going. In normal driving use the throttle to slow down, and then use the brake - pumping it as you slow to a stop so as to let oil back inbetween the band and the drum to keep things lubricated and prevent the drum from overheating. When you have the old bands out have someone crank the engine over slowly by hand so you can inspect all three drums for possible cracks.

Most of all, enjoy it !!

Regards,
Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 12:33 pm:

My opinion is that if it is your car, you're entitled to do whatever you want with it, regardless of what other people think, and whether you want to consider other people's opinions or not is also up to you.

At the museum I work for, I wanted to paint my T, and that started a big controversy. Some said that my T had the original paint, and I should leave it that way. However, that was not true, for sure! Others knew that, and said I should keep the original look. I wound up painting it anyway, not because I wanted to make it look nice (but that's a plus), but mostly because I wanted to protect the metal, which had almost no rust or anything on it. The paint was peeling and chipping off, and some areas were starting to rust up because of it.

So it boiled down to this: Either don't paint it and let almost perfect original metal deteriorate as the old paint deteriorates, or paint it to save the metal, possibly for a future paint job.

I only had a $100 budget, so I used spray paint, and because I'm hard-nosed sometimes, I used black lacquer! It took 20 cans, all set and done. It's not real pretty, but it actually came out pretty well.

When I was sanding off the old paint, it was clear that the paint was not original. Underneath the black, I found brown primer. Under that in some areas was white, below that was - you're not going to believe it - bright orange! Under that was what was left of the original paint, on top of bare metal.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 01:01 pm:

You could always go for something like this... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 02:25 pm:

Many people ask prices they think their car should be worth. That worth being based on the fact that the car is theirs. People are funny. If your car for sale has a flaking spot in the paint, it is a major detraction. The car cannot be shown like that. You don't even want to show up on a tour with it that way. If their car for sale had a few places like that, it would be because that car was used on tours and shown a lot. It was proven, it was admired, it was part of it being a wonderful car that you should want and be willing to pay for.
Most people that are looking to buy an antique car are willing to consider one painted a correct color, even if they like them in a wider variety of colors. But those that want only "proper" colors will not consider a car painted in a "wrong" color unless they can get it really cheap so they can afford to have it repainted. Maybe by a professional. So a non-original color limits the market to which the car will be of interest.
Many things, including color, affect the value and price because they limit the market to which it is attractive. My coupe has a number of accessories. Some of those accessories make it better to drive in the mountains where I live. Some of them dress it up a little. Some of those accessories are valuable by themselves. They probably add to the value of the car, mostly because of what they are worth by themselves. But they also limit the market if I were to have to sell it. I bought it because the way it is, it is perfect for me. I got it for a good price because when it was for sale, most people that would look at it didn't think it was for them.
Model Ts, and many other things, as a part of our history should be preserved and appreciated so our future may know its past. But they should also be enjoyed. And if painting a T a "wrong" color will help someone to enjoy it more, therefor drive it more, that would also be a good thing. It doesn't get seen much if it doesn't get driven and enjoyed.



Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 02:40 pm:

Good post, Wayne. Speaking of factory colors, I think someone posted a list (or partial list) of years and the respective available colors. Was that you? Or maybe Mr. Jelf?

It would be nice to see that again..and this time I would take notes...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 03:22 pm:

Some people will be have a stroke if a T is not painted its correct year color. Especially if they are a 100% purist.
Others have the view you can paint it what you want to.
I restored my Grandfathers 24 Coupe as closely to original within reason and its black because its been in our family since 1942.
The 1919 Roadster I restored from the ground up is black and when I did it over 30 years ago
I thought totally original as far as the paint goes so its also black. BUT that was then.
The 1921 Touring I am currently restoring also is a ground up restoration and I am seriously thing about painting it one of the 26-27 color schemes. They do look nice I think.
A lot of folks do this going by the pics I see on this and other T websites so I may do just that.
To each his own I say as long as its not poky dot!
My very humble opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 04:10 pm:

Dan, post a picture of what the body looks like right now. Personally, I prefer the 'poor but honest' (semi) original look, what you decide to do is to to you. Keep in mind that once you start stripping the body/fenders down for paint, you're going to open up a big can of worms when it comes to needed body work and 'sins of the past' and there's no going back. It all depends on just how much time and expense you want to put into 'cosmetics', that you could be putting into driveablilty.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 04:53 pm:

Danial, no need for notes. Just copy and paste. It's in the Encyclopedia as part of a llllonnnng explanation of Model T painting.

Most Model T's were black. Not all, just most. The early 1909 models were red and gray, but in the middle of 1909 this gave way to a dark green. During December 1910 and January, 1911, the dark green in turn was changed to a dark, almost black, midnight blue. Finally, in late 1914 to early 1915 the blues were replaced with just plain black on the open cars. From this point until the introduction of the “Improved Models” which appeared in August 1925, black was the standard color. Roughly 11,500,000 cars were produced during this time period and even after the introduction of the Improved Models, many of whose bodies were painted in green and maroon, a substantial portions of the cars, and even whole cars, continued to be painted black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M Philpott on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 05:03 pm:

I bought a rare Ford back in my custom and street rod days and there were just a few of that model and only a few left in the stock world and I couldn't believe I had found one. I fought with my self as to stock or custom world. I finally looked at it as though it was my car, my money, and one of my dream cars so I went with my heart and I customized all I could and it looked great. Would I do it to my T? No. But then have I changed the color? You bet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 05:20 pm:

If it's the original paint, I would do everything I could to preserve it.

If you paint it anything but black, all the fashion police and other riffraff will tell you it's wrong. You can either tell them it's your car, not Henry Ford's, and you will do with it as you please.

Or, you can make up a long story how this was a special factory order for your great grandmother, Eileen Wright, and you have promised her to keep its original color.

Do you see a lot of black cars in GA? They are impractical in our intense sun, and show every spec of dust.

I don't much care what others think of mine. It pleases me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 05:27 pm:

Ah-ha...thanks Steve. Copied, pasted and saved. One of these days I'll buy a printer so I can put this information in my loose leaf..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 07:15 pm:

"Finally, in late 1914 to early 1915 the blues were replaced with just plain black on the open cars."

Shouldn't that be late 1913 to early 1914?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 07:19 pm:

Dan, Are you thinking of refinishing for resale or for keeping your car for your own long term use? If the former, you will have a larger resale market if you keep it black. If the latter, the sky is the limit. It's your car do what you want.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trey Gwaltney on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 11:08 pm:

Well, this thread has saved me from having to ask one of the questions on my list, i.e. "Is it ok to paint my car?".

After 15+ years in the general antique trade, I know all the schools of thought about original colors, paint, finishes, patinas, and the like. But I know there are some strong feelings out there about Henry's Model T's. Fortunately for me, it sounds like I won't be hunted down and drawn and quartered by four brass era Touring cars for painting my little '22 Roadster something other than black! (But after the purchase, and some maintenance, it will be a while before I can afford the paint job anyway!)

So here's 'part B' of the paint color quandry.... If I want to paint it two-tone, (the primary color probably a burgundy, the secondary black) is there a standard design for which parts are color and which are black? I feel like I have seen several different examples.

And while we're on the subject, what is the school of thought on painted spokes vs. natural? Mine are black, but I'm ready with my can of stripper and a brush.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 11:34 pm:

Typical two tone of the era was black fenders, runningboards and splash aprons, and rest the second color.



1919 Franklin


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 12:27 am:

I picked ford colors ( 60's & 70's )for mine, Sandalwood Tan and Cordova brown (metallic) not orig.but I like it. The car is also a put together from parts found.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 01:09 am:

There would have been lots of owners who decided to make their car different and painted it another color when they purchased it. Then added some accessories changed the radiator or surround even put a different body on the chassis so a change of color is not something that never happened it did.

In Australia a lot of the black T's were painted a different color before they were sold as well as owners doing it. Once the bodies were made here virtually none were black.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Trey Gwaltney on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 01:10 am:

A handsome ride, Bob. What can you tell me about the truck bed? It looks like the one in Snyders' Catalog for a Roadster. I thought it might be fun to have one in the future as a second option to the turtle shell. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 07:27 am:

Trey,
Here's my 29 Chevy with the "typical" era 2-tone color scheme in the burgundy and black you mentioned. I've got a red speedster and a yellow speedster, but my other T's are black. I think colors are kind of tolerated on speedsters, but frowned upon for regular cars -- except the early ones that were "supposed" to be colored.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 09:48 am:

I would post a Picture. But I can never get it to post without an Error reading saying the file is too big. Any ideas?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 10:03 am:

Mike, you may be right. I just copied and pasted from the Encyclopedia. I wasn't around in 1915.

Trey, the wheels are like the rest of the car. Black is factory correct, but a lot of people like other colors or natural.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 10:20 am:

Dan .. you need to re-size your photo .. usually with a program on your computer. I use Picassa .. it's free for download. Open photo, Edit how you like .. re-crop, play with colors, etc.. but most importantly, 'export'. Then you can pick what size you want it saved to. Usually 180 or 200 pixels should be fine. I think posts can be up to 250k or so.
s


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 12:00 pm:

Dan:

As others have said, it is your car and you can do with it as you want. The first question I'd ask is if the current black paint job that is cracking is the original patina? How far back can you trace the history on the car? If it has been repainted, then paint it the color you'd like.

If the car has the original paint, you may want to keep it that way - remember, it is only original once. The current trend, it seems, is to replace as little as possible on original cars and still keep them running. As Mike said, you'd eliminate potential buyers should you plan to sell, meaning those that are looking for an original car (not one that has had replacement original parts). Cars that have never been altered since they came off the assembly line draw a lot of attention at car shows. Steve stated your options rather succinctly if resale isn't an option.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 12:08 pm:

Trey

Thanks. I found a PU bed that was half rotted away,(about 1/3 gown) from just forward up the left side of tail gate to the right side front corner of the front cross board. I took measurements and made drawings and built it. I do not know if it was a home grown design on manufactured. Anyway I have drawings on 11"X17" paper of it and the hardware that I made also. If you would like a copy send me your mailing address. It's not very readable when E-Mailed.

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Dan,

I agree with Dennis .... :-)

By Dennis Hoshield on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 09:42 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 05:29 pm:

Here is the Picture you all were asking for and is the start of this thread.
To Paint Black or not Black?
Dan


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:27 pm:

Personally, I'd leave black. I sure do like the A's with their purdy colors, though!

What parts have cracked paint? Are the cracks 'through' to bare metal?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Yoest on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:42 pm:

The main body, not running boards or fenders. Considering all the comments and seeing some of the others different colors, I believe I will leave it black and cracked paint for now. Thanks to everyone for their views you gave me a lot to think about. Now on to band replacement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Carl Altamura on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 07:22 pm:

Some research for my 1926 roadster resulted in these paint colors: Dupont enamel - Channel Green 546, or, Pyroxylin paint - Rock Moss Green , Drake Green , Vagabond Green, Highland Green.

When I sanded down the existing black finish, the green showed through on the main body, with black fenders and running boards. Windsor Maroon, Rosewood Beige, Gunmetal Blue, Moleskin Brown, Dawn Gray, are also options for 1926/27 T's. Anyone know what colors the steel spoke wheels should be. Mine are currently tan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

Dan, that is a good looking car. It could just be the picture is a bit blurry, but it looks way too good to repaint. That's just my opinion.

Here's my response to all the purists who think if it was black from the factory it has to be black now: Henry built more than a couple, so I'll paint mine my way and you paint yours your way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 09:07 pm:

My '24 has black fenders and running boards .. but the body is a very dark maroon ... or something. Wonder if it's the Windsor Maroon you listed above? Someone posted earlier, that many of the colors were very dark .. almost black. That is certainly the case with mine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:41 am:

This is another way to go if you like colors


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:40 am:

Question: Would their be any concern about colors for a Model T if Ford would have continued using a vararation of colors after 1916?
HMMMMMM_______


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:25 pm:

Robert,

You used the same paint on that bench in the background didn't you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:30 pm:

Bob, watch out! The correct police will get you for that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ROBERT BERGSTADT on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

No just looks like the same color, that T got looks from everyone, went to Montana and the guy drives it everywhere


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

Dan

I think every original Model T owner added accessories and perhaps paint as he could afford it.
My grandfather worked for many years as a painter in a body shop. He repainted lots of T's, some in black but many in other colors. So I suspect there were lots of T's running around in the day that wern't black.

Just for what its worth, he also told me that his shop didn't spray paint but used a proprietary brand of enamel called "New Enamel". It was supposed to have a special flow characteristic that allowed you to use a brush and wind up with a smooth paint job with no visible brush strokes.

Cheers
schuh


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration