So...there it sits - for a time at least

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: So...there it sits - for a time at least
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 06:56 pm:

The good news - I took the tudor out to the post office today and the milled Z-head worked wonderfully. The car ran like a champ and no white smoke.

The bad news...on the return trip, I was a block from home stopped at a light to turn right and the fella the left of me said that the rear wheel was wobbling. I had recently had the rear wheels off to double-check the bolts and knew that it should have been cinched up good on the axle. Once home, I jacked up the car and the rear wheel on the passenger side had some end play, only it moved the axle with it. Me thinks that the babbit thrust washers finally failed. Fortunately, I have a Ruckstell, which having read numerous threads on thrust washers on this forum, I believed, saved the day.

The differential was the next thing on the to-do list to overhaul and I was hoping that I would get through the season without having to tear into it. I don't have room in my garage right now to work on it, so a friend and I have arranged a time later in the month to move it to his shop, where I'll work on it this fall. I've never torn into one and would gladly welcome any local assistance, especially eyeballing what needs to be replaced; however, I don't want to impose on anybody. By the way, I live in Puyallup, WA. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 07:19 pm:

The good news is that the most time consuming part of a rear end rebuild is waiting for the parts.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Andy Loso St Joseph, MN on Saturday, September 08, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

Parts don't take long to arrive, I just go out to my shop and pick what I need from my inventory.

OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS
aloso@q.com


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 01:49 pm:

Fortunately, T differentials are pretty easy to overhaul. I did mine in the parking lot of my apartments!

Here's a bit of friendly advice I like to give to people who are rebuilding a T differential for the first time. Make sure that you put it back together with the ring gear on the driver's side! If you put it on the other side, everything will go together just fine, but you'll find that you have 1 speed forward and 2 speeds in reverse!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Harrison,Norco Ca on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 02:34 pm:

Cameron did you learn that the hard way?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 02:43 pm:

Jim,

I would say you are extremely lucky it happened without any excitement or injury. Also, it was not a catastrophic failure, so you may find some usable parts in the rear end, who knows?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 07:21 pm:

George,

I didn't actually learn the hard way, at least not this time! I always figure that you should learn from other peoples mistakes when you get the chance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:41 am:

I don't think you can put a Ruckstell together backward. What is the best way to take a few thousandths off a brass thrust washer if you don't have a lathe?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Harrison,Norco Ca on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:42 am:

Cameron,absolutely!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 02:52 am:

Shave the brass washer with a file, i did but it takes forever.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:42 am:

From memory (not that reliable) -- I believe the MTFCA video said you could carefully use a belt sander. From reading (more reliable than my memory -- but it is early and I haven't finished my first cup of caffeine yet) the MTFCA Ruckstell Axle book says, "A common surface sander can be used for this operation. However, you must be careful to keep the tow sides of the washer parallel and the thickness uniform across the surface." (pg 33) I would encourage you to obtain a copy of that booklet [available from the vendors also our club at: http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/service-manuals and if it is your first time and you will not have anyone who has done it before to help coach you -- I would also recommend the video. Once you have rebuilt the rear axle it is not the sort of video you will watch again every Christmas with the family -- but it has a lot of great information. Again available from the club or the vendors [ 5-1; 5-2; 5-3 http://modeltstore.myshopify.com/products/restoration-videos ]. Some of the local clubs have a library with those books and/or videos. If yours does not, when you are finished using them, you may want to start the club library with them.

Good luck and please keep us posted -- especially about what caused the failure in the first place.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 09:19 am:

I do have all of the MTFCA manuals, a couple on the Ruckstell, as well as the Ford Handbook. Any red flags I should be wary of or pay special attention to? Thank you for bringing up the Ruckstell brass washer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:08 am:

Be sure to check the little pins that hold the steel washers on either side of the thrust washer. They are a bugger to remove. I drilled them and used a small thread tap to hook them and pull them out as I did not have a small enough easy out. Be very carefull if you do that as the thread tap is very hard and easy to break off, then you have a problem.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:26 am:

1. Just drill them, tap them, run a screw in the threads and it will push the pin out. Takes about a minute a pin. I use a 10/32 but an 8/32 would probably work.

2. You can not put a Ruckstell together with the ring gear on the wrong side.

3. It would be pretty hard to thin the brass washer on a belt sander and keep it uniform. If you get a .010 high spot on the washer and put it in, as soon as that one spot wears down you will have .010 clearance. Etc. It is hard enough to get them exact on a lathe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:32 am:

Why pull on the thread tap? You already have threads, run a machine screw in and use it to pull it out. When we did mine, we just ran a small self tapping screw in an used a pry bar with a shim for padding under it, and they popped out with not a lot of effort. It took a little longer than they said it will above. We had a lot of trial and error getting the fit we wanted. Chaffins instructions will scare you when you first read them over. It seems like there is so much to do, but we pretty much breezed trough it. It just took time and trial and error to get the washer thicknesses correct


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Aldrich Orting Wa on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 11:29 am:

Jim,
Give me a call when you get ready. I've never done one either!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

If you don't already have it, get the MTFCA Ruxtell book by Milt Webb, Glen Chaffin, and Bruce McCalley. You can't tell what parts are good or bad by just looking at them. You need to measure them, and the book will tell you what to measure and what the measurements should be.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 04:55 pm:

Steve:

Great advice about the measurements. I do have the MTFCA Ruckstell book, as well as the one on the front and rear axles.

To all - every little piece of wisdom is so helpful (probably more than you realize), especially for us music teachers who are not as mechanically inclined (I am envious of some of the skills you guys have). Things that may seem common sense to those who have been in the trenches for years may be foreign to us who aren't.

Here's an example - I'm embarrassed to admit this, but it's true. I tried several different types of gaskets on the exhaust manifold and none would seal. I knew that my manifold was straight and didn't have cracks because I had it checked prior to the engine rebuild. I was thinking that the gasket was at fault, but it was really because I was torquing things down in the wrong sequence, working my way from back to front instead of torquing bolts from the inside out. I was blessed that Mike Conrad problem-solved the issue with me and that's how I discovered my error. Once I torqued things down in the right sequence, everything sealed up just fine. That step was not in any of the manuals - I repeat not in any of them - and I would imagine it isn't because it's common sense - but only to those who have worked on equipment.

I've followed the manuals pretty closely when I've rebuilt the carburetor, steering and the front end. I'd rather not do things incorrectly and permanently damage something, so any words of wisdom are welcome!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:19 pm:

There's a human tendency to assume that everybody knows what we know. That's why things like the order of torquing bolts or heating a carburetor body to loosen a stuck seat get left out of books that are supposed to tell you how to do things. The writer assumes that everybody knows the most basic things, and sometimes they don't.


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