Molding your own tires....

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Molding your own tires....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 01:32 am:

Serious question guys. How hard is it to mold a tire?
How about the belting?
I've got a LOCAL manufacturer who would consider it but would want me to produce my own mold, etc for the job.

Could I reverse engineer it if I took a Wards Riverside and cast it in plaster?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 02:26 am:

I dont know much about tire molds, ive seen a couple and it would be fairly diificult to make one without some experience. they are split radially so that they can come apart, and i would imagine you put the cords in the mold and then pour(inject?) the rubber.

as i remember there is an old tire shop called towel city tires that make reproduction pie crust slicks that has been in business forever, im pretty sure they make their own molds. they might be somone to talk to.

that being said it would be awsome if one could produce well made tires in America, i wouldnt mind if they didnt last as long as originals, but 4000 miles? thats rediculous.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 02:35 am:

just looked up pictures of tire molds, they are really complex, and most are made of aluminum or steel.

there are a few outfits that specialize in making tire molds though, the problem is having a tool like that made would be big bucks, i used to work in plastic injection mold making, and larger tools cost near $100,000. may not be the case with tire molds though.

one thing to consider is contact who is making the wards tires and see if you could convince them to move their molds back to the states, you know show them the desire for better quality and show them that there are people willing to make them here. worth a shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John W. Oder - Houston, Texas on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 07:44 am:

http://www.ngk-fine-molds.co.jp/english/gallery/tire-cavi.htm

Link was one of many Google hits. Pink job on left is a pattern for casting "precision aluminum casting" of mold segments. Look up "Investment Casting" to see what they are talking about.

The castings would need some machining at their joints, and likely where they fit up in the molding machine, but the tread pattern would be "as cast".

Naturally, the mold maker would NEED TO KNOW what tire molding machine these segments would have to fit in.

Many of the Google hits are patents.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 08:41 am:

The main cost of the tire is the manpower, not the rubber. That is why Coker can make a 30 X 3 1/2" Model T tire in India or Vietnam and sell it at a profit for $200. A similar Dunlop 30 X 3 1/2" tire made in England sells for $400.

Once you have the molds you still need to consider the manpower necessary to make the tire carcass that is the core of the tire. The tire is not just a molded piece of rubber.

If you made a tire in the USA it would be a bit cheaper than the British tire, so let's imagine for argument's sake that - with no prior tire manufacturing experience - you could make and sell them for $300 a tire. How many would you sell?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 08:42 am:

In 1969 I worked in a retreading shop with mine tires. My friend worked with the car tires. In both cases the tires were rapped with the "raw" rubber, then the tires would be stretched to decrease the diameter of the tire and the mold would be slipped over the tire. When the tire was released, it would fit tight into the mole. Then the tire was filled with air and steam was injected into the mold. The air would cause the tire to press the raw rubber into the tread and the mold was "filled" with steam. The steam provided the heat necessary to "cure" the rubber. The very large tires used on the mining equipment was done the same way. Some of our molds were over 10 ft. across.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 03:43 am:

Mold made from concrete lined with resin might not handle the heat. But it might make a mold. Spellcheck hates the word mould?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 03:51 am:

Paper work and liability insurance would be such a blow out in costs at this end of the world, you wouldn't even consider trying.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 04:16 am:

Depends if you were selling the tires or making them for yourself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 04:53 am:

Wouldn't matter Kep, If an accident happened at the fault of a home made tyre, you would loose the shirt of you back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:21 am:

Not if you do not tell them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Simon Meakin on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:21 am:

Correction Royce, Dunlops are $578.00 ea at present !!.
Simon.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:51 am:

Kep, so you don't tell the authorities and the insurance company about the origin of the tires; how are you going to explain a no name tire, or one with a bogus name on it. If you lie, sooner or later it will catch up with you. I don't need a tire bad enough to have to spend what it would take to have one custom made.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:51 am:

If you set up a company and started making tires in Indonesia, where the two main ingredients - rubber and oil - come from, Coker's price would magically drop to match or better yours. You might not make a fortune, but the rest of us would be very appreciative. Competition does that.

To me, it makes sense that the final product comes from where the raw materials are. We just need the freedom to do 100% inspection of imports - paid by the importers.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 09:32 am:

To me there's not too much to fuss about.

We T hobbyists have a nice selection of tires for our cars. Wards,Firestone,Universal Driver styles in clincher, seems ok to me. Heck, Constantine made it from Melbourne to Moscow on these new tires, what more can you ask :-)

I'm happy to buy today's new clincher tires.



If you think about pricing today, tires have always been a costly part of automobile driving.

Here is adv from 1924:



While today the price of $9.65 each for an Oversize 30 x 3 1/2" clincher seems a deal,

just use the CPI Inflation Calculator at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website and you will find:

$9.65 in 1924 is in today's devalued by monetary inflation (gov't high speed printing press treasury) is the same as $129.29. Not that far off from what we pay now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 09:42 am:

Dan, that's if you believe the government's numbers.

$9.65 was almost half an ounce of Gold in 1924, and would be equal to $806.68 today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 10:32 am:

Derek

Agree with you on that! Some speculation is in gold now, lots of monetary and policy questions worldwide, yet to mention unrest in certain civilizations other than the western world. Should be in every one's portfolio.

Stay aware of these facts today...

USA Debt Clock $16,045,515,411,416.83
Last Updated: Monday, September 10th, 2012 (updated daily)

Every man, woman and child in the United States currently owes $52,812 for their share of the U.S. public debt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 11:18 am:

$2 Trillion of that debt is for the F-22 and F-35 fighters that will probably never fire a shot in anger. They are obsolete, but we keep pouring money into them.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

The F22 fighters were a stepping stone to purchase basic equipment and technologies needed to equip and maintain the F35. Sort of a kids bike with training wheels to learn how to ride a bike before buying Junior the 15 speed racing bike.

The F35 is the world's state of the art fighter, and we will sell more of them as export than we will ever buy for ourselves. Therefore, like other leading technology fighters of the past (F14, F15, F16, F18) the program eventually pays for itself.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 04:18 pm:

I hope they learned something on the F-22.



Here they are cutting the $270,000 canopy to get the pilot out after seven hours trying. Something about a software glitch.

The first time a pair of them tried to go to Guam, their navigation computers got lost at the International Dateline.

Have they fixed the pilot's defective oxygen supply system?

Why would any other country buy F-35 for $Mult-millions when they can buy drones at a fraction of the price?

There isn't an enemy worthy of risking such expensive fighters as the F-22 and F-35.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

What in the name of God's Green Earth does the F22 and F35 have to do with "Molding Your Own Tires"? Really?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 06:06 pm:

In case you didn't follow it, Mike, the price of tires drifted to inflation and the price of gold, to the debt clock, to one big reason for the debt.

How does the price of balloon tires compare to clinchers? Is there more than one factory for balloon tires?

Has a difference in price led anybody to change their T from clnchers to balloons? What's the next step in affordability? Aren't there motorcycle tires nearly 23 inch?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Thomas Mullin on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 10:48 am:

If you can find an old set of Compton's Pictured Encyclopedias (1930 or so) they have a very nice section on making automobile tires. As I recall (no longer have the set) they show a continuous strip of cord fabric being wound on the tire mandrel. That was then inserted in the tire mold and the rubber vulcanized on.

Going to have to find a set, now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 11:31 am:

Ralph likes to steer any conversation to his hatred of former President Bush. I don't know how former President Bush has anything to do with stuck canopies on the retired F22 Fighters but I am sure Ralph will get us there somehow. For sure it could not be President Obama's fault, he apparently is not responsible for anything of note.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 12:11 pm:

I'm not even sure why Ralph is on this forum. Very seldom does he post anything of relevance to the purpose of this site.

Does he go to a political site to talk about Model T's?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 02:58 pm:

I'm pretty sure the F-22 is pre-Bush, but neither he nor Obama killed it or the F-35. President Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial Complex. Now Security is added to the mix. I seldom if ever fire the first shot in the partisan politics here.
------------

Some people are myopic or dyslexic.

Again:

How does the price of balloon tires compare to clinchers? Is there more than one factory for balloon tires?

Has a difference in price led anybody to change their T from clnchers to balloons? What's the next step in affordability? Aren't there motorcycle tires nearly 23 inch?
----------

BTW, are there any tire sizes for less common cars that are not available at any price?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 03:22 pm:

"I seldom if ever fire the first shot in the partisan politics here." Seriously?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 06:04 pm:

Quoteth Luke -
"Does he go to a political site to talk about Model T's?"

Answereth Susanne...
"Yes. I have seen RDR talk T's on almost any forum you can imagine him on."

So... has anyone actually splurged the almost $600 per on a set of Dunlops for their T, and if so, how do they compare to Universals? Do they get 3-4x the wear, have better grip, rot les often?

I am still missing mightily the tires we used to get from that Kiwi Place down south. Lasted until they got hard rot.

(BTW, thank the spell check Gods for noticing I forgot the "r" in "splurged"... --wince--)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 06:37 pm:

Royce, that's because he's done Nothing of note. But a tire manufacturer who makes a quality tire for the T would be nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Luke Dahlinger on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 06:41 pm:

Susanne,

The point I was trying to make is the fact that he constantly posts political drivel here and has a known track record for derailing threads as a result.

I'm not talking bad about him, just stating VERY obvious facts. From PM's and emails I get, it's apparent I am not the only one who gets tired of his bullsh*t being posted here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 06:48 pm:

Those "bovine tailpipe emissions" never bugged me too much... too much fun talking old cars to let occasional snafu get under my skin... life's too short!

I know that may not be a popular opinion to take, but then again, some will remember years back, when I would rather take an unpopular opinion (and beat the hell out of it like hot vanadium steel). ;)

So... Still no comment about the Dunlops? I'm really curious to see if they're worth the money, or if I should go with the cheaper VN alternatives...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 07:31 pm:

Susanne, I bought a 4.50 x 23" Vietnam tire at the Iola Old Show for $99.
It looks good, the rubber smells like any other new tire, it seems to have good rubber covering all over and the bead is really heavy.
I have no idea how long it will last but it "seems" as good as any other new tires I've seen.
Maybe all the complaining about the Vietnam tires paid off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Patrick Martin on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 07:36 pm:

OK I'm back! :-)

The tire manufacturer I am speaking of is Interco here in Rayne LA and they make tires here in Louisiana. I figured that if I could fab up a mold of sorts I could have them cast them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 09:33 pm:

This is an ad for Goodyear tractor tyres, made in the 1920's. But it does show the general method of making tires by hand. Fast forward to see the manufacturing process. This is all done by machine these days. The process involves making a cylinder of raw rubber and adding layers of more raw rubber, some with cord. You can see the bias of the cords when the worker trims the layer with the cord. The cylinder is first expanded and then the tires are cured in the mold using steam. BTY, some nice movies of old tractors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwNMDGh--x8

I would be concerned with getting the raw rubber compound right. I would also worry about the liability and insurance. The first tires could be smooth just to make the mold easier to make. If one could find an old mold, that would be the ticket.

If clincher tires could be made using automation, the prices could be really low.

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Cassara Long Island, NY on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

What about recaps? Anyone out there know of a recapper that can refresh these tires?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 10:06 pm:

somone had mentioned that with fresh rubber you had to steam it to get it hard, and that possibly the new tires arent fully cooked.

it would be interesting to see if you could steam them and get the new ones to stiffen up a little.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

Lay them out in the sun for a few months they will get plenty stiff.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 11:21 pm:

What it actually takes to make a tire is you guessed it "MONEY".

We had a member here who sold a business for a big amount and at the time we were having trouble with some of the then tire manufacturers.
this was in the 1980-90's

He got to work and reproduced several popular sizes of vintage tires and had them produced in Asia. The tires were better quality than those available and were cheaper. The prices from the opposition dropped and they addressed the problems customers complained about.

Unfortunately he sold out to one of his customers Coker who I'm sure promised to continue the product unaltered but somehow the tires have slipped to a below standard product.

Can only speculate why, bigger profits, manufacturer using poor materials, a combination of both? who knows. Trouble is our market is small and most users only do tiny mileages at slow speeds over dozens of years. It would take a lot of failures resulting in deaths, and complaints to even get someone to think about any enquiry about the tires being dangerous or poor quality.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed in California on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - 11:28 pm:

"Does he go to a political site to talk about Model T's?" Luke, you are a funny guy. You owe me one beer since I spit it all over my keyboard after reading that one...:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Spaziano, Bellflower, CA. on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 - 02:46 am:

Back when I was going to Downey High School ('75-'79), I watched a movie shown in my drivers ed. class called something like "Wheels That Roll".

It showed the entire, step-by-step process of making a modern (1960's) tire. It even covered some tire R. and D. Sure would like to find a copy of that flick now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 - 05:08 am:

Here's a 1920's film showing tire manufacturing at a Goodyear plant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlJGew75eq8


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