OT - Carburetor Float Needs Help

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT - Carburetor Float Needs Help
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 05:25 pm:

The float in the carburetor on my Model K Ford has, I believe, become compromised. I'll not speculate as to how this might have happened as I do not want this post to turn political.

Presuming that I can not call a typical Model T Ford vendor and purchase a float for my Holley Model K (coincidental) Type 642 carburetor, I suspect that I may need to create one from some material that (a) floats and (b) will withstanding ethanol.

Please share any suggestions that you might have with respect to the material I should be seeking. And, if you happen to know where I might be able to purchase same, please point me in the right direction.

If it matters, the original float is cork (surprise) and is shaped like a doughnut. The outside diameter is 3" and the inside diameter is 2.5". It stands 7/16" tall.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you might be able to provide.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 05:53 pm:

Check with these guys:
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm

They have this posted on their web site:

CORK FLOATS

Many of the less expensive carburetors from the beginning up through about 1940 were originally equipped with floats made from cork. Most of the floats were coated with orange shellac, and then the finish was baked, creating a finish fairly impervious to the gasoline of the day. A few of the manufacturers did not coat their floats, and used a cork material that seemed to work fairly well with the gasoline then being sold.

The gasoline of today cuts orange shellac like a hot knife in butter, and also will permeate the natural cork material!

This poses a severe problem for the restorer. It is not economically feasible to attempt to mass produce brass floats to replace the cork floats. Also, the company producing the poly-nitrofill foam floats has been most un-cooperative unless orders of very large magnitude are placed with them. We are currently machining float pontoons from this substance, to be used with the original float arm.

For those who are independently wealthy, individual brass floats can be made. This also may be a solution for a retired machinist with access to a good machine shop. This is a very time-intensive remedy, expensive if one must pay for the time.

For the rest of us, it becomes imperative to attempt to use a replacement cork (or foam) float, and seal the cork (or foam) against the permeation of the gasoline. The procedure we at The Carburetor Shop are currently using is as follows;

(A) Detach the original brass arm from the original cork float.

(B) Clean the arm (we use a glass beading machine)

(C) Attach the arm to the polynitraphyl pontoon included with this kit.

(D) Submerge the pontoon, and the portion of the arm in direct contact with the pontoon into a product called ‘POR-15’. This product is available from POR-15, Inc, P.O. Box 1235, Morristown, NJ 07962. They have a website at www.por15.com. READ THE DIRECTIONS. ACCORDING TO POR15, ONCE THEIR PRODUCT DRYS, YOU MUST WEAR OFF ANY YOU SPILL ON YOU! I BELIEVE IT!

(E) Remove the float from the liquid and slowly rotate to eliminate any bubbles.

(F) Suspend the float with a suitable hanger, and allow to air dry for 72 hours prior to use.

This procedure seems to be working with the current mixture of gasoline.

If anyone comes up with a better procedure, we would certainly wish to be informed!!!


Good luck,
Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 05:56 pm:

Snyder's sells a raw material "slug" for just such problems. You have to shape it and attach the swing arm but at least it's an option.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/4696


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:01 pm:

Ken is faster than me but Langs has it as well.

http://www.modeltford.com/item/6201SLUG.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:16 pm:

You might see whats available for farm tractors in your area. Depending on how deep your bowl is this Farmall M tractor float might work. Its height is 1-1/8 inches.

application/pdfFarmall M carburetor float
Farmall Tractor Float.pdf (71.0 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:25 pm:

Tim, I have searched my contact list and I cannot find his name. I think his last name is Potter and he is in Illinois. He restored a Kingsten 4 ball carb off of my 1911 which included making a new float. He did a marvelous job. Perhaps someone on the Forum could help out with his name and a contact number if you look for someone to do the job for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:31 pm:

Tim,

Post a picture. I might have a copper float that would work by soldering your hinge to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 06:48 pm:

Old model Ford and Chevy trucks with the gas tank behind the seat have a float that is about 1 1/8 round and about 2 inch long.cut in half and resolder it to make a smaller float?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 09:25 pm:

Thanks to all who have offered suggestions. It appears that I have several good leads to follow.

Royce - I broke my camera while participating in the New London to New Brighton run last month and I have not taken the time necessary to see if it can be repaired or needs to be replaced. Hence, I do not have a picture of the float to share.

As this story unfolds, I will post progress reports.

Again, thanks for the leads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, September 09, 2012 - 10:29 pm:

This looks like a assignment for Stan Howe.Didnt he fix the carb on the the K we have been following it's restoration?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 07:56 am:

If you can salvage the original, it is usually better than a reproduction part. Your float was probably originally coated with shellac which a dark reddish brown varnish made by mixing shellac flakes with alcohol, which is why the old original floats don't hold up when immersed the new Ethanol blend gasolines.

Is there a coating that is impervious to ethanol gas such as POR 15 or a 2 part epoxy paint? If so, perhaps you can soak your original cork float in denatured alcohol (for shellac), or lacquer thinner (for other varnishes) to remove all of the original coating and let it dry out in the sun for a week until all of the ethanol has evaporated out of it, then coat with a coating that is impervious to ethanol. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 08:47 am:

The carb man Harry mentioned is Russ Potter. He has a reputation as the go-to-guy for carburetor repair.

carbking@soltec.net

Russell O Potter
PO Box 79
Bismarck, IL 61814-0079

217-759-7592


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 11:04 am:

I am thinking that the modern material is closed cell that is why it can be cut and shaped. If you can save your original that would still be a good option. I would not let it dry too fast and without some way of holding it's shape. I have seen cork floats in carbs that might have been saved but were warped badly when they dried out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 02:17 pm:

A friend made a float for a volkswagon carb with glue and a vacuam tube.How long it lasted,I dont know but it did work for a while.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, September 10, 2012 - 03:16 pm:

Tim,

Most cell phones have cameras. Maybe you could find a teen ager willing to take a picture for you and text the picture to me? Send me a PM and I will give you my phone number. Click on my name to send messages.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 09:11 pm:

UPDATE:

Thanks to the many who responded to my request. As a direct result of the input I received on this site, there may be a simple solution to my sunken float problem.

Much to my surprise, I was able to find in Lang's online catalog a float for a Model G Holley carburetor that had the proper shape. I called Don and he measured it for me.....and sure enough the OD and ID matched my need perfectly. It is, however, about 1/8" too tall....which is a lot better than being 1/8" too short.

The float arrived today. And it appears that with a little luck I'll find time before Sunday to see if I can sand it down a bit and make it work.

Again, thanks to all that responded. The suggestions were most helpful.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 10:06 pm:

Thanks Steve. Russ Potter was who I was trying to find. He really did a nice job on my Kingston 4 ball. Even polished the outside. I clear coated it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 10:32 pm:

UPDATE:

The Model G float arrived. It is a perfect match for the float I removed from my Model K carburetor, but for its height. It took only a few minutes of sanding on a flat surface with 180 sandpaper to remove about 1/8" of height.

The new float came with two mounting holes pre-drilled for the hinge and needle valve contact surface. Luckily, the mounting holes also matched those in the float I was replacing.

With only modest effort and time I had the new float installed and adjusted.

The car once again runs well and since late this afternoon the carburetor has not leaked a drop.

SO.....it appears that my Model K may well be back on the road again.

Thanks to all that responded to my request with respect to my sunken float.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 10:39 pm:

Fantastic! Maybe someone did the same thing many years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:34 pm:

Tim,

This thread is an example of why I'd like to see the "author" of a thread posted with the title. Had I known it was you, and your K, i'd have been all over it.

Not to worry, if your K isn't up and running by Hershey, you may again use mine :-). After all, what are friends for? Although I sincerely hope you are now "back on the road" and we have two K's at Hershey. We can even drive over to the AACA museum and have three together.

Glad to see you've solved the problem.

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:36 am:

I'm looking at the float slug on Snyder's site and, pardon my ignorance, but a couple of questions came to mind:

1) what material is it made of?
2) what is the purpose of the hole in the middle?
3) what kind of tools does a guy use to get the shape you want out of the slug?

I'm thinking ahead for solutions for my Overland, which has a cork float. Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:47 am:

In response to Jim's questions.....

1. I do not know the composition of the "new" material. Don Lang did however mention when I was speaking with him that the new material is "closed cell" meaning it can be cut, drilled or otherwise molested with no need to "seal" it after shaping it.

2. The hole in the middle of the Model G and Model K floats is for the venturi to pass through from the bottom of the carburetor up to the outlet.

3. If the slug is made of the same material as the "ready to install" Model G float, it will be very easy to shape as needed. I suggest a dremel tool.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:49 am:

Rob

I agree with your thoughts regarding identifying the poster's name. Doing so would allow readers to pick and choose more easily the posts they wish to read and those they wish to pass.

Timothy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Timothy Kelly on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:52 am:

Rob

Since I seem to be driving your K more than you are (thanks!) maybe you should store it at my house.

I'm just trying to be helpful.

Timothy


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 01:10 am:

Tim,

I drove the K tonight. Hit 50 mph on one stretch. We also finished the top boot this week, that gives it a sleek look w the top down.

Up rather late aren't you?

Rob

From my iPad


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 10:21 am:

"I agree with your thoughts regarding identifying the poster's name."

You already have that option by using the "Last Day" or "Last Week" icon at the top or bottom of the Forum pages.


(Is there an echo in here?) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:01 pm:

Tim:

Thanks for answering my questions!


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