When I push down the starter button the True Fire buzz stops and the engine makes no sound. Any thoughts on where the short is?
If there were a short in the starter circuit, you would have smoke. Sounds like you either have a dead battery, or a high resistance connection somewhere between the battery and the starter button.
If the battery is charged, and you hold down the starter button a few seconds, you will feel a hot connection at one end of a battery cable.
rdr
Robert,
You might also want to check for an open circuit, too. Sounds like something is either soaking up all the juice, or a bad connection.
Did you "fix" anything recently?
I will try both suggestions. Thanks.
What you've got is a connection that is so loose or corroded that it can pass enough juice to run the TrueFire, but as soon as the starter tries to pull a big load, the connection opens up.
Assuming your car is more or less normal in wiring, the "hot" juice from the battery goes to one side of the starter switch (usually a floor button), where it is picked off by a smaller wire that runs the entire car except for the starter. It sounds like one of those connections is loose, and the moment the starter tries to pull a large amount of juice through it, the connection opens up.
The other side of the battery, the negative side, can have the same problem.
Pull off both battery terminals, clean the posts and insides of the terminals with a battery brush, and put them back on tight.
Then take the ground strap loose from the frame, scrape and sand all connection surfaces until they are bright, and reassemble TIGHT.
Then look at the other end of the battery's hot lead, where it attaches to the starter switch. Make sure the connection between that big wire and the small wire is bright, good, and tight.
While you're at it, check the connection between the other side of the starter switch and the wire to the starter, and the connection to the starter itself. Those are less likely to be the problem, but why not check all of them?
Throughout all this, look for wires, especially the big ones, that have corrosion around the internal conductors, especially at the ends. That could easily be the problem area. If you need to replace a large wire, DO NOT buy from your local auto parts store. They sell cables the right size for 12 volts, and you need 6 volt cables. You can get them made up to your needs at a big-truck parts store, or order them from any of the Model T suppliers.
If all else fails, try jumper cables from a 12 volt battery directly to the starter. If it spins, the problem is not in the starter, and I didn't think it was anyway.
And NO, this is NOT an argument for going to 12 volts in a T. It's simply a convenient trouble-shooting procedure.
Before I try the battery cable clean up, I checked the battery and it registers 4.18 volts. That is low, but I thought I would at least hear an attempt at the starter starting.
I connected the multitester to the 6 volt positive cable bolt on the starter button and got 4.18 volts again. Then I connected the ground to the negative terminal as before and the positive to the starter side of the starter button and no juicer at all.
So it is either a bad starter button even though it is new, or I just need a new battery. The battery has a 11/06 sticker on it so it is 6 years old anyway.
You are correct - 4 volts IS low. This may well be your only problem.
Try this - with your meter connected directly to the battery, no cables or connections in the way, mash the starter button. If it goes to zero, it's probably the battery. If it retains a bit of voltage, even 1 or 2 volts, it may be something else -- but it certainly sounds suspicious to give only 4 volts at rest.
Here is my opinion - there is no problem here that a new battery will not cure.
This Maryland summer was extra hot for many days and heat will just plain kill a battery when cold will only reduce the output.
Have you tried this? Put a 6 V battery charger on the battery and charge for about one hour, then with the charger still attached to the battery, try the starter. If it works, the problem is not your starter or the switch. Then take off the charger and try it again. If it doesn't turn the starter the problem is in the battery. A 6 year old battery is beyond the usual lifetime for a battery. Model T batteries take a beating because the cars usually set idle for weeks at a time and then driven short distances which really does not keep the battery fully charged. If you don't drive the car it is a good idea to use a battery charger often to keep it fully charged.
Norm
The previous owner of my touring told me it needed a new starter. When I installed a new battery the starter miraculously fixed itself.
Wow. Thanks for the thread. I was having the same problem on my 14. I checked the 6 volt battery and got under 4 volts. All I have to show for it is a huge left arm from cranking the engine over and over.
There is a lot of advice here but in truth most of it is moot. If a 6V battery measures even 5 volts it is dead for all practical purposes and if it has been stored in that dead state for more than a week or 2 it is likely ruined and unable to even take a charge. A fully charged battery will typically measure 6.35 assuming it has been off the charger for 48 hours and still measures 6.35V One cannot make meaningful sense out of voltage readings taken on a battery that is fresh off a charger except that if the battery is as low as you have stated, it is dead whether it has been recently charged or not. If a battery is fully discharged it cannot be brought back to any meaningful amount of recharge in only 1 hour on even a 10 amp charger since that would be putting back about 10 amp hours of charge and a typical T battery holds between 60 and 80 amps hours of charge so it is only marginally recharged if at all by a 1 hour charge unless that is with a very large charger and those are not safe to use unless you are knowledgeable about what you are doing. Hope this helps.
Further to John's post:
from wiki on Automotive Batteries:
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The open circuit voltage, is measured when the engine is off and no loads are connected. It can be approximately related to the charge of the battery by:
Open circuit voltage . Approximate charge . Relative acid density
12 V . . . . 6 V
12.60 V . 6.32 V . 100% . 1.265 g/cm3
12.35 V . 6.22 V .. 75% . 1.225 g/cm3
12.10 V . 6.12 V .. 50% . 1.190 g/cm3
11.95 V . 6.03 V .. 25% . 1.155 g/cm3
11.70 V . 6.00 V . .. 0% . 1.120 g/cm3
Open circuit voltage is also affected by temperature, and the specific gravity of the electrolyte at full charge.
The following is common for a six-cell automotive lead-acid battery at room temperature:
Quiescent (open-circuit) voltage at full charge: 12.6 V
Fully discharged: 11.8 V
Charge with 13.2–14.4 V
Gassing voltage: 14.4 V
Continuous-preservation charge with max. 13.2 V
After full charge the terminal voltage will drop quickly to 13.2 V and then slowly to 12.6 V
Open circuit voltage is measured 12 hours after charging to allow surface charge to dissipate and enable a more accurate reading.
All voltages are at 20 °C, and must be adjusted -0.022V/°C for temperature changes (negative temperature coefficient - lower voltage at higher temperature).
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rdr
Though the model T was a miracle in it's time, it still requires a charged battery and gasoline to run.
I'm being a bit sarcastic, but you would be surprised how many service calls I go on to repair ATV's and tractors that won't start because of dead batteries or empty fuel tanks!
The battery in my TT has been dead for months. At first, it would not turn the starter, but would still buzz the coils. Since I hand cranked 90% of the time anyway, then swapped to mag, I didn't care. Then it got to where it wouldn't even buzz the coils, so I started hand cranking on mag and still didn't care about the dead battery. The generator will charge it in short order and it will buzz the coils the rest of the day, but I've gotten into the habit of cranking on mag now. I should get another one. Just haven't.
Bob just told me that he did get another battery and his engine starts easily now. That battery was six years old and the summer was just too hot for it.