Vintage Anderson timer..Sorry guys I have to say this

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Vintage Anderson timer..Sorry guys I have to say this
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 10:47 pm:

While it works great, all most every time I hand crank the car the engine rocks back and pulls the lever down. Not just a little but 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down. I am going back to ether my Old New Day or roller type before I hurt myself. When I use the starter it does the same thing, then I turn the key off crank the engine over with the starter and pull the lever back up.
Granted this is an era unit and the new ones may not do it. I know some of you have had great luck with them and swear by them but mine is coming off soon before I swear at it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 10:49 pm:

Mark-
I'll trade you.
-Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 10:52 pm:

No, the repro ones do it too. But I readjusted my timing, and it no longer does this....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 10:54 pm:

the timers are made slightly differently, you simply need to re adjust your timing rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

If the "engine rocks back and pulls the lever down" your timing is set wrong. It is to far advanced and is firing before top dead center.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, September 13, 2012 - 11:44 pm:

I will check my timing again. But I am real sure it is compression rock kicking the flapper back and it getting hung up on the contact and pulls the timer around. I have it set 4 notches down because I start on mag when I can. If that does not fix it I will be sending Keith an email.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 12:10 am:

With the ignition off, hand crank the motor. If it rocks back, you know that timing isn't causing it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 12:24 am:

It is not a matter of where the timing is set. It is a matter of one of the timer contacts (or more) being improperly formed, or worn to the point that it catches the flapper when the engine rocks backwards when it is shut off or when the engine is hand cranked and fails to light off.

I have heard that the current manufacturer of the Anco timers might have cured the problem. It is a quality control issue.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 12:32 am:

Mark,
I have heard of this before. Some things I would check are:

How much tension is the spring holding the timer holding under? If it is very loose there would be little friction to hold the timer in place.

Is the surface of the flapper and contacts lightly greased? If they are dry it would be more likely to grab and move the timer back on a roll back.

Does the flapper extend further out from the shaft then it should? The further out the more likely it will catch on the contacts.




Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By william louis rosenthal on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 03:23 pm:

Mark:
I had the same thing happen with a brand new Anderson unit in my 12. Never had an accident as the result, but opted to trash it before it had the chance to catch me off-guard.
Regards,
Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Davis-SE Georgia on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 06:12 pm:

I've had it happen to a repro. It was after it was a couple of year's old. I took a grinder to the 'burr' on the flapper and smoothed it up a little and it didn't happen again. However, another year or two had it running rough. I found inconsistent inter-cylinder timing and replaced it with a new Anderson. It is now running with a handful of grease inside. The first one was 'lightly greased'. Some of the guys who say they get the longest life from them run them completely dry. Sounds bass ackwards to me, but I have no reason to doubt them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 07:46 pm:

I worn out 2 of them so you should know that I liked them. I have a 12 hand cranked engine with the timing set right. I've had a very few times where the engine rocked back or bumped the advance lever down. Maybe the first time I discovered it when cranking and experienced a little kick back. After that I always checked the lever position. It can can happen. Be Careful and Always check!!

I hate to say this but now proudly, happily and discretely use an etimer and love it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 08:32 pm:

I did pull the timer off just to do a quick look see. The flapper is very grooved but the spring seems right. The flapper is making contact on the leading edge but does not look like it wiping the full length of the contact. Because the angle and short length of the contacts makes for a big gap between the end and the next contact there is a lot of room for the flapper to pop up and pull the timer back on compression rock back. When I installed it I put Vaseline on the contacts but that has gone. So yes it is dry now. There is some metal flakes in the bottom of the case from the worn flapper. Just to remind folks, this is an original unit so your experiences may differ with the new units or properly checked adjusted originals.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 02:00 am:

Mark, I love the looks of the original anderson timers. I had one rebuilt by "Tip-Top Timers" and it works as well as it looks now. Cheaper than buying a new one too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:26 am:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:36 am:

I put one of my New Day's back on. I used the 2ed best out of the three I have. It's smooth but I want to do some clean up on the good one to make it even better.
This timer has been taken apart, could someone have put different contacts in it? I don't have an unmolested one to compare. There does not seem to be wear on the contacts in the timer, the flapper on the other hand was used when I put it in but I don't recall being this worn. Maybe the flapper is the $1 demonstrator version that there is talk about?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 03:54 am:

I've been running an old very worn original Anderson timer on my '25 coupe for almost five years now and it is still going. Just needs a cleaning and a bit of lube about once a year or so. I can't figure out how it works without packing it with grease though. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:14 pm:

I agree, it did work great except for the persistent problem I was having with this unit and thought it better to remove it before I was on the receiving end of a mule kick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:30 pm:

I smoothed up the backside of the flapper a bit with some sandpaper and cured the backlash problem. I ocasionally put a little grease on it just in case but no problems since the sanding job.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:12 pm:

If not a rebuild, could be Tip-Top could set you up with a new flapper and adjust the existing unit contact arms for best fit/function, even contact, etc. That one does look like uneven contact and very dry (non greasy).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Erick, good suggestion. Look at the photos, does anything look wrong? If the cam turns counter clock wise then there might be;
The first one shows the notch to the front;

2ed notch to rear;


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 04:15 pm:

Thanks everyone! The suggestions for cleanup, polish and adjustment is spot on. I was looking at the operation the wrong way. While the spring makes for good contact it may have been replaced and might be too strong. I do see that the contact need some adjustment.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 11:40 pm:

Mark:

The instructions say to "lightly grease" it and I experienced exactly the same problems you have, but with a new timer. In fact, the worn spots on the flapper look identical. I took my dremel and made it smooth again, then I sprayed some lithium grease inside. That seems to have done the trick.


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