Broken frame

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Broken frame
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Gotesman on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 05:12 pm:

It is amazing: today, with a little help of my friend (c) and with the participation of Constantine Mandilas, the crack of the frame of my T was accidentaly found.

Here is a picture


It is right under the engine's mount bracket.



As I know, it is amazing happening: T's frame is strong. Constantine's idea is that there is needless part: the rubber washer under the bracket:



Constantine's version - is that frame does not have enough stiffness with rubber parts in this coupling.

What would You say? Should I remove that washers after welding the frame?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

It should have been mounted ridged, also with a wooden block that is bolted inside the frame rail. welding may not be enough to fix, I will post a photo of a repair as soon as I can, need to roll T out of shed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

Best to stick with the Ford design.

Get the frame repaired, then check the engine pan 'ears' to be sure they are not cracked, that can happen over time when the Ford design fasteners aren't used or get loose.

Ford specified a hard wood block, with a wedged in fit, be sure the block gets tapped in place with a drift pin. Snug into the inside of the frame rail. Then a bolt and nut, tight, and cotter pinned to the upper hole of the pan ear to the frame.

A second longer bolt goes thru the wood block, but that bolt is not tightened, just snug, fit the nut just snug to get the cotter pin to line up. That important second bolt keeps the frame rail from spreading apart, keeps the pan ear snug, and prevents frame cracking.






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 05:51 pm:

thats an interesting break, it is supposed to be mounted rigidly with two bolts and a block of wood. but i wouldnt think that would cause the break.

i would think a GOOD weld with 7018 rod would hold up well. i wouldnt grind the weld down either.it could also be a good idea to weld a plate in to strengthen it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 06:39 pm:

As you can see, this repair was double railed and rivets, taking the photo just now has shown me that I have a leaking freeze plug, on the to-do list for today.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 07:02 pm:

that one illustration shows a coil spring? ive seen both sides srung before.

is one side supposed to be sprung?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 09:23 pm:

Once the frame is realigned and tacked in place,a plate can be hid on the inside of the chassis rail for strength and not take away as much from the looks of the underside of the frame.
Frame breaks are common.My TT has a very old repair on the right side rail in about the same spot.
I just consider it 1 of of the old trucks battle scars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 09:32 pm:

Matthew -- That spring is someone's idea of a better way than Ford's for this application. It was published many years ago in one of those "tips" columns. Time has shown that Ford's solution was indeed better. There is a lot of stress on the frame at that point where the engine rides on it, and lots of frames and/or crankcase arms are broken there, often when someone opted for a "better idea". The original setup seems to be the best.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 10:04 pm:

The problem with the springs is they let the engine rock, which is hard on radiator inlets.

Dan, thanks for the timely drawing. I went right out and made a pair that I will install tomorrow.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Gotesman on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:02 am:

Thanks to all for answers - especially Dan for detailed drawing. I'll report about results


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 02:30 pm:

I don't think the rubber washer is the cause of the problem. It would be more likely a cause of the ear breaking off the crankcase. The cracked frame is caused by a combination of things. One is the continual stress on the frame when starting out in low or reverse, or when applying the brake. It twists in two directions depending on which way you are going forward or reverse. The other would be the weight of the transmission and rear of the engine as well as the front seat passengers and the force of the ball joint under the engine. All these forces combined with going over bumps in the road for over 75 years finally caused a break. Welding on a patch is the way to go. Although a patch on the outside is more visible, it would be easier to install the motor mounts than with a patch on the inside. I had a crack on one side of one of my frames, but it didn't go all the way through. Just on the bottom rail. I welded on a patch 20 years ago and it is still good.
Norm


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