23" demountable 4 lug wheels

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 23" demountable 4 lug wheels
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cliff Bartell on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 06:35 pm:

I have two 23" demountable rear wheels and rims. Twice now I have been corrected and informed that TT wheels did not ever have 4 lugs, and on the other hand passenger wheels were never done in 23". These wheels also have small drums which could have happened any where along the road. I don't have much knowledge and could really use some help on this. Did 23" wheels ever come in a 4 lug configuration? If not what are these?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 07:24 pm:

I'm no expert, but, as I understand it, the way tires used to be sized, you double the little number and subtract from the big number and it gives you the diameter. For example, my TT originally came with rears that were 30x5--that's a 20 inch wheel--the modern replacement tire is a 600x20. The 30x3 front wheel was actually 24 inches diameter and the 30x3 1/2 was 23 inches diameter. In 1919 when the demountables came out they were 30x3 1/2, which would be a 23 inch diameter rim. When the 21 inch demountables came out they were called 21 inch wheels/tires, but, the 23 in wheels/tires were/are still called 30 x 3 1/2 for some reason. That's my understanding of "what"--I have no explanation for why.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 07:34 pm:

Cliff,

23" rear wheels with demountable rims for T's were common. As Mike says, they are typically referred to by the tire size of 30 x 3 1/2. 4 lugs were standard for bolting the rim to the wheel although I remember seeing some with 5 lugs too (not sure they were factory original though).

Walt


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, September 14, 2012 - 08:39 pm:

Cliff,

Note the term 23 inch rim can be applied to both the 30 x 3 1/2 inch normal demontable clincher wheel& rim that is found on the front of the TT as well as on all four corners of the Model T Ford cars that had clincher demountables from the Ford USA factory. But the Ton Truck also came with a much heavier rear wheel that is also a 23 inch rim/wheel. Additionally the Ton Truck was also sold new from the factory with 20 inch wheels & rims in the rear. ALL the original Ford Model T Ton Truck demountable rear wheels had 6 lugs holding the rim to the wheel. The lugs matched the manufacture of the wheel.
For 23 inch Ton Truck Rear Wheels please see:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/310809.html

For 20 inch Ton Truck Rear Wheels please see:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300071.html

For some NON-Ford four lug wood spoked wheels with larger tires. Perhaps someone swapped some rims and or tires etc. out over the years? These were probably car wheels – but you get the idea please see:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/168157.html

For additional information on the old verses the new way of describing tire/rim/wheel sizes please see:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/110353.html
And I noticed this is your second posting. Welcome aboard!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cliff Bartell on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

Really appreciate the input, but I'm still not fully understanding. The rims on these wheels are not clinchers. They are conventional bead, I'm sure ,from the answers to now, they are common car wheels, but they are 23" diam from bead seat to bead seat, like a 21" IS 21". Please pardon my ignorance,just trying to get this straight in my head.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 12:45 pm:

Cliff rear TT 23 in wheels and rims, are very different 6 lug to start with, rims are 6 lug and split like a 21 in rim I'm looking for good used 23 in TT rear wheels presently want HAYES wheels to match my Hayes rims danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 01:07 pm:

Cliff,

If you are able to post a few pictures it would probably speed the process up for you. If you cannot post them if you would e-mail them to me I will try to post them for you. If you click on my name at the top of any of my postings it brings up my forum profile and my e-mail address is the third line down. Please limit any single e-mail to 10MB or less. Higher resolution photos 500 to 800 kb are better for review and can be e-mailed but cannot be posted without reducing the resolution/size to 200kb or less.

Also please be sure to state if you are discussing wheels that are already on your Ton Truck and if so if they are on the front or the back of the Ton Truck. Or are they by themselves and you do not know if they fit a Model T or Ton Truck or not.

You mention small drum which would lead me to think your are discussing the rear wheels that would fit the 1908-1925 small brake drum CAR rear axles. But you also mention TT which I normally associate with the Ton Truck. Which as pointed out above the Ton Truck did have four lug demountable rims in front -- but unless there was an accessory front brake installed -- they would not have a brake drum on the front wheel. Some of the other cars of the 1920s-1930s did have wood spoked front wheels that did have brake drums. And the TT Ton Truck rear wheels would have a brake drum but it is much larger than the car brake drum.

So if you could please let us know more details about the wheels you have and if they are on a Model T Ford and if so if it is a car chassis or Ton Truck chassis and if they are on the front or rear of the chassis. I think that will be helpful information.

Note several other car makers and also Ford in South America provided cars with 23 inch non-clincher wheels and rims. And of course they would have been available as aftermarket wheels and rims also. Please see: Forum 2012: Where can 30 x 3 1/2 Straight Sided tires (NOT clinchers) for split rim demountable Model T Ford Wheels be purchased at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/264646.html

If that does not answer your question, I think posting some photos will be able to provide the addition information needed.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 01:10 pm:

Cliff,
It sounds like what you have are "straight sided" rims. AFAIK, these were only on Ts as an aftermarket accessory. I don' think they are very common, but what do I know?
The TT 23" rim is, I believe, much wider than the passenger car rim. My TT has the 20" lock-ring rims (the behead-er rim!).
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cliff Bartell on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 01:15 pm:

Cleared up my mystery, they're 30X3 1/2 wheels with accessory rims that nobody makes tires for. Thanks for all your help guys, really appreciate it.....Cliff


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 04:11 pm:

Cliff you are welcome, I do have the same rims and 2 NEW COKER 30 x 3 1/2 straight sided tires that go to the rims, they are for sale danuser88@ktis.net


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 07:25 pm:

Tires can be purchased for those rims. Buy a 31X4 straight side tire. Fords in South America used that type rim. Chevrolet used that type rim and it can fit onto a Ford wheel. Several companies made after-market rims for Fords like that. Plus a few dozen other marques of automobiles also used them in the '10s and early '20s.
Call John D. He has lots of great, and unusual , stuff.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


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