Radiator problem

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Radiator problem
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 05:48 am:

I have a high style flat tube radiator age unknown. When I run my car it blows all the water out the overflow tube and motometer pegs to the top after a few minutes of running. Car does have waterpump and pump is working. Headgasket is new. To me it seems like a blockage in the lower tank area or clogged tubes. Any thoughts? Water passages in block are free of gunk.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gerry .D .Best (NZ) on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 06:01 am:

Hi Tim if the radiator is filled to the top it will find its own level,usually about half an inch above the the tubes.Or dose it empty out alltogeather
Cheers gerryde (NZ)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 06:12 am:

Oh it empties out of the top tank Gerry. No water left in top tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 08:25 am:

Any of the accessory water pumps hurt cooling, not help. They usually leak a lot too. Chances are the radiator is full of stop leak and can't cool very well due to clogged tubes.

Every Model T I have purchased has had the same problem as yours. Start by removing the radiator and then you can back flush it with water to remove all the crud. Take the water pump off, cut the shaft in half and discard it and replace it with a normal water inlet and a shorter fan belt.

Put it all back together and fill the radiator with a gallon of vinegar and then the rest of the way with water. Let it stand 24 hours, drain and flush. You won't believe how much rust comes out!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 10:50 am:

Thanks Royce.
Yes there is quite a bit of stop leak in it because it does leak.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:52 am:

Tim,

If you are lucky cleaning out all the crud and getting rid of the leaky water pump will fix the problem. If the radiator is corroded badly inside it might have to be replaced. You won't know until you try. Only one of my cars still has its original radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 11:59 am:

Sometimes a water pump will pump with too much pressure. Back in my old hot rod days we used to grind off every other vane on the water pump in order to pump the water slower. My brother in law Kenny Hall had a 1913 REO and its water pump cavitated because it was too powerful. He too ground off every other water pump blade and resolved the issue. This only works for an equal number of blades. If you have an un-even number of blades simply remove an equal amount of material from each one.

The top tank is there to allow for expansion some folks put a screen in there to slow the flow. If the water level is too high lower it. It does not appear that you have blow-bye pushing water out so it is either the water pump or too much water in the top tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Danuser on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 12:51 pm:

buy a new riad. and end your problems


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 01:07 pm:

You can try all of the above. If it fixes the problem, you have saved a lot of money. But if it does not, overheating will cost you a lot more, because it will also ruin the engine. If the fixes above stop the overheating and you don't have any leaks. If it leaks in the core of the radiator, it is time to replace. If the leaks are around the solder seams at the tanks, a good radiator shop can fix it. A new radiator will cost you about $1,000 but it will run for many years without a problem if you keep the coolant clean. Probably in your area, the water is soft and you don't need distilled water, but I do recommend a 50 50 mixture of the old green antifreeze.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 02:13 pm:

I think I am going to bite the bullet and get a new radiator. I think you guys are in to something with the water pump creating too much pressure, the impeller on mine is pretty big.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Floyd Voie - Chehalis, Washington on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 04:18 pm:

Tim,
Just a thought........If the engine timing isn't given enough advance the engine will overheat.
Good Luck
Floyd


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Doolittle on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 04:59 pm:

A good, efficient radiator doesn't care about the engine timing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Saturday, September 15, 2012 - 06:32 pm:

The timing is something I need to check also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 01:03 am:

sorry I meant to say earlier that you guys were ON to something regarding the pump creating too much pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 04:40 am:

Tim, a flat tube radiator is VERY efficient, if it is clean. It may just need to be cleaned. Try using some vinegar or CLR in it before you decide to replace it. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Deichmann, Blistrup, Denmark on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 04:46 am:

Tim, in particular since the Model T is not designed for at waterpump. The waterpump have most likely been added at a point where the radiator already began to be to clutted with junk.

If you go with a new rad (you won't regret that) you do not need a waterpump at all as the socalled termosyphon (natural circulation of water) does a tremendous job and the pump only adds potential leaks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Gelfer, Milwaukee WI on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 10:26 am:

I agree with Michael. I had an old round tube radiator and a leaky water pump when I got my T. It was very common to overheat after five miles. Got a new radiator and ditched the pump. Now it never gets close to overheating, even doing parades in 100 degree air temps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 10:51 am:

No body has mentioned checking for a leaking head gasket or a crack allowing the coolant to be blown out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 06:35 pm:

Head gasket is new. I am going to ditch the water pump. I was not aware of the problems they can create. I also think a new radiator would be nice. I have had car for 6 years and think its time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 08:10 pm:

I think Don is correct in his diagnosis. The clue here is that it blows the coolant out after only a few minutes of running. Blowing the coolant out before the engine and radiator get hot as a pistol is an indication of compression gasses in the water jacket. That flat tube radiator is probably just fine. The water pump should be hung on a wall in some bodies collection.
The head and block should be checked with a straight edge, .002" max warpage. I like to sand heads and blocks with emory cloth to clean them up. That will usually clean them up enough to spot any cracks.
I have had several engines that have acted this way. They run for a few minutes until the engine gets warm enough to open up the crack then it starts blowing out coolant. It only takes a very small crack.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 11:03 pm:

About $250-300 will get your radiator recored. Model T cores with 3 rows of flat tubes are readily available. Check with Wilson Peters at Clicks Texas Radiator in Dallas, TX.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 02:32 am:

apparently no one has radiators in stock, called bergs and brassworks and they are all about 3 weeks to a month out, I understand they are custom made. Might call a vendor or 2 to see if they have any in stock just for information purposes. Going to to take mine into the radiator shop and get it check out to see if its worth fixing. already ordered parts to go in place of water pump.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 06:25 am:

Typically Langs and Chaffins keep radiators in stock.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 06:49 am:

ok cool thanks Royce.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 07:05 am:

Tim (pressure) was mentioned several times above Fyi Model T's are a non pressurized system you may already know this ? I've ran an "evil" water pump for years we've had one on every T we've owned ( with no issues ) to date..... So don't be mislead. But yes they are like any other man made devise they do wear out and need service at some point, I have a 2003 silverado pick up bought it new in July 2003 I've already replaced the (Water Pump) I've owned the T prior to 2003 I've never did any thing to the pump but re pack it when I bought the T and that was a preventative measure.....only.
I've posted on here many,many times for all the pump haters to send me all unwanted water pumps bet you can't guess how many water pumps I have right now......? Give up?
I have one....! Yep it's the same one that came on my T but if I ever ware this one out which I doubt I will I may have to buy another one at some point.
My offer still stands to all you pump haters.... I have plenty of room for them, send those hellish evil, water pumps to me and I'll make sure they never terrorize your T's anymore !!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 07:30 am:

Steve I don't hate water pumps, but just trying everything I can to correct problem. I would rather use a water pump but if for reason it is the source of the problem in combination with a plugged radiator then I will run without one.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Wilson on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 07:59 am:

I just bought a radiator from Berg's last month. He told me it would take two weeks, and I had it on the car in less than a week


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 08:46 am:

I called Bergs yesterday and he was getting ready for Hershy so it would be a few weeks before he could take an order.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:24 am:

Tim not my intention to say your among the water pump haters... Lol.
It's just anytime water pumps, engine oil, tires, inner tubes, transmission bands ect.... Come up, the read goes on and on and on for days. I got to try to get these guys railed up every now and then....
My car would run fine with out one but I do a lot of slow driving plus we have some mild to steep hills in our area here in Tennessee, that's the big reason I like to run one not that it's needed.
Hope you get yours cooling the way you want it too, you will not regret a new radiator just make sure you get a quality built one I've heard good things about Bergs. That's the route I would go.... I did over heat mine last time I drove it 100 degree temp Day spark in the wrong spot = boiling in your radiator.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Williams on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:43 am:

I hope to have my problem sorted out in the next week or 2. I knew what you were talking about Steve :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:21 am:

I hate to sound stupid but what is CLR?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:48 am:

It is a product to remove a build up of calcium.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:51 am:

Would CLR hurt the radiator?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John B Joyce on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:55 am:

clr stands for calcium lime rust, you can get it in most grocery stores in the laundry soap deparment. A half bottle in the radiator filled with plain water and run for a half hour or so at idle will flush out a lot of gunk. after draining flush with plain water then flush with water and a half box of baking soda to completely neutrilze the CLR. You wont believe all the crud that comes out. Straighten the fins carefolly to get better airflow and lastly blow out the spaces between the fins with compressed air or a garden hose with a nozzle from the engine side, a lot of bugs and chaff in there too. Do this before you spend $600 or more on a new radiator. You might be surprised. Good luck! John


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 12:09 pm:

I think all you guys except Donald are barking up the wrong tree. Tim says the engine blows out coolant after only a few minutes running time. I am assuming he means starting out with a cold engine. A good Model T engine that has run only a few minutes, with the timing way off and the radiator all plugged up will not get hot enough to peg the motometer. Hot combustion gasses are much hotter than boiling water or steam and will peg a temp. gauge quite fast.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

Thank you guys for the info on the CLR, will try it and then some vinegar as a back up.

bill d


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:32 pm:

Most good shops can test for HC's in the cooling system. A dye is used in a vial attached to the radiator neck and will change color if HC's are present. This is a first things first test, other wise you could be throwing dollar bills at the situation hoping the problem goes away.


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