Type of oil

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Type of oil
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ronnie wehba on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:31 pm:

ok getting ready to drain the oil and go after the nut/washer in pan,what oil and how much is needed to refil with


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

OH no!! KB, This will get a firestorm started so I will give you my 02, 5 qts if you had the inspection cover off, any weight or brand choice is yours alone. Have fun, KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

If you haven't had the rod inspection plate off, about 4 3/4, the 3/4 as wast to flush the troughs out and 1/4 for top up later. Then open the top pet-cock and let any over fill drain out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

Here in Texas it is starting to cool off. For our weather here, you ought to use 5W-30 of the cheapest brand you can find. Change it every year or every 1000 miles, whichever comes first.

If you were moving to Minnesota its almost time for 0W-30.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James R. Booth, DeRidder, LA on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 01:02 pm:

Ronnie:
You have gotten off easy with this post - so far! If you would search for previous posts about "type of oil","water pumps" and "thermostats" you would realize why Keith started out his post with "Oh no". There are many varied opinions on these subject - enough so that frequent posters to this forum avoid the subjects like the plague. If you search for these topics in previous posts I am sure you would enjoy reading them and you could gather all of the many opinions upon which you can make your own determination.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 01:54 pm:

It gets cold here in N.J. so from experience I can tell you that straight 30 Non-D is out for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:10 pm:

warm weather who cares, doesnt seem to make much of a difference, but in the winter time i can see the advantage of a thinner oil before the engine warms up,

but other than that 30-40 wt. oil is good and i usually use about 4-5 quarts. always keep an extra or two around!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:23 pm:

I have run everything from 5W-30 to 20W-50. As a general thought, I go thicker in summer and thinner in winter, but that is obvious. I think T owners worry about it more than Lizzy does. Very experienced folks have been using and swearing by oils at both ends of the above spectrum. Cheap is good as it will not stay in there as long as most modern engines.

Oil additives are to be suspect as many can influence proper band/clutch function without adding anything positive.

Mine never takes much more than 3 quarts after a simple drain via the bottom plug. Take your time and keep the top petcock open. Add 3 and see if it starts to drip from the top petcock. If not, just slowly add till it does. Then you know it is at the specified level.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:24 pm:

Forgot to add, good luck getting the nut and washer out of that pan.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:52 pm:

Wow! So far, this oil discussion is quite tame. :-)

I'm surprised no one mentioned ZDDP.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By tyrone thomas on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 02:56 pm:

I can't find a zink oil so I had to get a zink substutute


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Knoll on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 03:00 pm:

Anything but 3 in 1, sewing machine oil, Wesson oil or Mineral oil ? LOL ! Went from 30 wt non detergent to 10-30 detergent and now I am going back to 30 weight but detergent . I did notice more "sounds" with thinner weight oil.... Good or bad ? Can't really say , but it did make me take my inspection pan cover off and discover a nasty situation, so that was good to discover at this early point .

Here in my neck of the woods, it never gets that hot or cold (usually) so 30 weight will be fine here .


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 03:11 pm:

10-30 and sae 30wt. are the same weight once the engine is at operating temp.

the advantage of a multi weight is that it acts like a thinner oil at cool temps.

in other words its viscosity doesnt vary as much as a straight weight oil does with heat, therefore your oil doesnt have to be as thick to achieve 40 wt. when up to temperature.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 06:44 pm:

There is a new oil out now and on the shelves by Quaker State called Defy. It defies engine wear. Right on the front of the container it mentions zink. under $16 for a 5qt. jug.
Probably don't need zink in a T engine with such weak valve springs but why take the chance.
Yes Matthew, 10-30 and straight 30 may be the same weight when hot but 10-30, or better yet 5-30 will get the engine lubed RIGHT NOW, not 2 minutes after you start it.
It is a slash system, it needs oil as soon as it starts running.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Max L. Christenson on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 07:27 pm:

Attached hereto is the Quaker State Technical Data Sheet on Defy. It appears to be available in different blends, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc. Maybe someone else understands the technical data in this report.

application/pdfQuaker State
Quaker State Defy -- GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007079157_201203220840.pdf (42.5 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 07:32 pm:

i was comenting on dan knolls comment of the "thinner oil makes more noise"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Jablonski on Sunday, September 16, 2012 - 09:45 pm:

Our Model T's have a common thread with motorcylcles..... same sump oil lubricates the trans and engine.

I use motorcycle oil, 10W40 for 4 cycle bikes.

Most protection available.


Bob Jablonski


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 12:13 am:

To be period correct you must use Veedol, Polarine, Auntie Chatter, or Gargoyle. You can get some when you top at your local filling station to pick up a map. Be sure you take enough empty jars.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 01:23 am:

10-30 and sae 30wt. are the same weight once the engine is at operating temp.

the advantage of a multi weight is that it acts like a thinner oil at cool temps.

in other words its viscosity doesnt vary as much as a straight weight oil does with heat, therefore your oil doesnt have to be as thick to achieve 40 wt. when up to temperature.

There is a new oil out now and on the shelves by Quaker State called Defy. It defies engine wear. Right on the front of the container it mentions zink. under $16 for a 5qt. jug.
Probably don't need zink in a T engine with such weak valve springs but why take the chance.
Yes Matthew, 10-30 and straight 30 may be the same weight when hot but 10-30, or better yet 5-30 will get the engine lubed RIGHT NOW, not 2 minutes after you start it.
It is a slash system, it needs oil as soon as it starts running. " END QUOTES "


Man, where do you Guys come up with that stuff, to say 10-30 when hot is the same thickness as 30 wt., when hot, is Ludicrous!!!

To say a car is not going to have 30wt. oil in the bearings, and else where for two minutes of running, is an idea, not well thought out, as all you need is one Revolution.

The truth is, hot 10-30, will run out of a hot bearing at rest, faster, then a 30 wt, when hot after shut down.

After it gets cold, pull a rod, or main cap, and see all the oil in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 04:00 pm:

My only question about an oil with Zinc in it... wouldn't it be similar to running a graphite oil in a T?

This is kinda important to those of us who run the Famous Ford faithful multi-magnet whirligig ignition and lighting system...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 04:56 pm:

Suzanne, All automotive lubricating motor oils had zinc in them until they found that it clogged up catalytic converters so they removed the zinc. All new engines must have roller cam followers because of the lack of zinc.

The Quaker State oil company makes a new oil, which is actually their old oil again . . . called Defy and also the Fischer company sells "Classic Car" oil which is also sold in five quart bottles and contains the same zinc we require for our friction type solid lifters that run right on the cam lobes. So there are two companies selling this oil.

If you run modern oil of any weight you will wear out your cam shaft lobes and lifters rather quickly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 05:01 pm:

Oil? Since when did Model T's start needing oil. Maybe that is why mine won't run or turn over. I need to check the tire pressure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 06:26 pm:

On a follow up note, mine leaks less with 20W-50 than with 5W-30 if that is worth anything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 06:34 pm:

Aha! Thanks, Frank! I remember the horror stories of people putting graphite oil in their cars, only to find out their mags no longer worked...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 07:00 pm:

oil didnt have zddp in it until the 50s.

model t cams are made of steel, not cast iron, they have 3.5:1 compression and turn low rpm.

the amount of lubrication required in a model T is very low. you will not be harming anything by running zddp but it is not required by any means.

most any engines pre 1950 ran on non detergent oil, which is the lowest grade motor oil you can obtain, it has no additives in AT ALL. it is straight mineral oil, thats it.

the interesting thing is that caterpillar found in the late 20s found that by useing oil with detergents their engines lasted longer, even when they werent using filters. this happened by accident because one of their supplys of oil had detergents in it naturally, then when they switched to a different oil from a different geographical location the life of their engines reduced greatly. they investigated why and they found the naturally present detergents, so they formulated artificial detergents and started adding them to the other kind of oil and saw engine life increase once again.

now if you ever start running 200 pds of valve spring pressure in your T then you should start looking into a higher grade oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 07:53 pm:

Matthew David Maiers: Please let us know if any of the modern lifters made as replacements for Model T parts require zinc additives. If they don't then it is only cars built between 1950 and when they removed the zinc altogether. Do you know when zinc went away ? I do know that they have been removing it slowly for years and now it is gone.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 08:06 pm:

Exactly Susanne.
How about the warnings about using lithium or molybdenum greases for the universal joint and 4th main?
If a small amount of those will eventually short out the coils what about zinc?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 08:15 pm:

its not the lifters its the valve spring pressure and rpm.

original model t lifters are probably made of chilled iron, new ones might be steel, either way doesnt make a difference. Model T valve springs are around 20lbs at the seat modern engines are around 100lbs.

anything you put in your T will be better than what was available when it was on the road originally.

leaded gasoline didnt hit the market until around 1924 either

i have never bought zddp, the only cam with a flat lobe that i have seen was in a car that had tons of it in it.

i put thousands of miles on my T a year with wal-mart oil, so too with my truck which has an isky cam and 100pnd valve springs.

and yet noneof my engines have ever exploded into a mushroom cloud.

if you are running a race motor then use racing oil, it has all the additives in it and is design for such applications.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 08:20 pm:

Yep, best of all is racing oil, period racer brands preferred, always check the label for racing use....Model T's need racer oil.

100_2146 (640x427) (600x400).jpg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 08:41 pm:

Just did some reading on zddp, turns out it hasnt been fully removed from oil, just reduced. certain oils have more of it than others such as racing oil.

but what i found interesting is that if too much ZDDP is present that it can actually act as an abrasive.

i would suggest that if you choose to run zddp that you should find an oil blended with zddp in it from the bottle as opposed to adding unknown amounts of it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, September 17, 2012 - 10:48 pm:

I use 5W-30 and so far, so good. Every once in a while, I throw in a dash of Marvel Mystery Oil cause I have a fairly low-time engine and maybe that'll help keep it clean—and if nothing else, it smells nice.

I recently switched to 3-in-1 oil in the timer and the engine does run smoother on it, but I guess the jury is still out on the long-term effects.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:11 am:

Lately using Kendall GT-1 "liquid titanium" synthetic blend because it is cheap at a local store. Noticed the 20W-50 weight has extra ZDDP in it and specifically mentions being for flat lifter/cam engines. The other weights do not have the same formula.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 06:44 am:

Kohnke,

You asked "Where do you guys get this stuff?"

The oil rating found on every container of oil is developed from testing conducted by the society of automotive engineers, aka the SAE.

The main number in a single rated oil - for example SAE 30 - is a test result conducted with oil at a specific temperature. It takes X amount of seconds to fill a container X in volume.

In a (so - called) multi viscosity oil there is also a number followed by the letter W - 5W-30 for example - in which case the first number represents the test result when the oil is poured at a cold temperature. It takes X amount of time to fill a container with X volume.

So what does this mean? Mainly it means that the use of these new high technology oils has decimated the auto machine shop industry over the past twenty years. Auto manufacturers (the SAE) had to make vehicles pass 100,000 mile emissions testing regulations. To pass the test the engines could not be worn out. The main thing that keeps modern engines from wearing out is better oil. Engines last longer when better oil is used, and the result is that most of the small machine shops world wide are out of business.

We Model T nuts can have the same benefits. All we have to do is stop thinking we know more than a petroleum engineer.

I hope this clears up the confusion for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 07:27 am:

I use Dapper Dan ....

Always carry a can or two ... :-)



Jim



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 08:31 am:

Does'nt dapper dan contain marvel mystery oil to thin the modified bituminous roofing tar?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 09:08 am:

Dapper Dan Does not ...

Dapper Dan Does for Dews what Marvel Mystery Oil
does for Motors ....

A Dandy Don Dollops his Dew with Dapper Dan ...



Jim :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 09:15 am:

Ah, but its the MBRT that really gives it holding power. MMO may be just for fragrance?

(forgive me. I've been house bound to much)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 09:23 am:

Erich,

You are forgiven ...

I have been truck bound a lot lately .... :-)

Well - back to hauling !



Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:28 pm:

Royce, you are the one that is confused.

Modern engines have oil pumps, as you may learn some day, Model T's don't.

Even a New Dixon Mower, with a 22 Horse, over head valve calls for 30wt.

The biggest place you will see thin oil fail in a Model T is Piston Scoring, because there is just not enough film protection.

Sure, your motor will run, on 5w30 but at what wear price, compared to 30wt., that has the protection.

If you changed a Model T to a pressure system, it still would be better to run 30 wt, as you still would have a babbitt bearing, and needs the cushion from oil that don't turn to P*^$ water when up to Temp.

That's not even counting the gears, and bushings in the transmission.

It would be the same as running 10-30 in a Model A transmission. And don't think just because the oil would run out, because ours don't leak.

Pouring cold oil out of a container and finding a 30wt, doesn't mean anything, as when it is hot it is 5, with no wear protection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 01:50 pm:

Kohnke,

The test results are facts my friend. The 30 number is the hot test.

The 5 number is the W (winter) test.

A Model T originally came with an oil that is equivalent to SAE 20 in terms of pour rating. Installing thicker oil delays the time it takes for oil to get to the bearings - not a good thing. Thicker oil does not mean better oil, especially when we are depending upon splash and gravity. It probably takes twice as long for any lubrication to get to the bearings with a cold engine starting on 10W-30. 20W-50 would be even worse.

You should use appropriate oil, and what makes sense to me is an oil that performs best for ambient weather conditions. That way my engine lasts longer between overhauls.

For you, recommending a thicker oil will keep the customers coming more often.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 02:40 pm:

Royce is exactly right,

While 10w-30 and sae30 are hot they are the SAME WEIGHT.

everyone thinks sae30 is thicker because it is while it is cold. but in fact when hot it is the same weight 10-30.

the 10w designation means that it will behave like 10 weight at winter temperatures. whereas the 30sae would be more around syrup.

syrup doesnt move. when you fire your engine up from a cold, you want as much oil movement as possible. how does a SPLASH lubrication system work better with syrup?

multi weight oils are better in general, that is why they started making them.not sure why you would even want a straight weighted oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 03:48 pm:

WELL! Here we go again! The MOST important thing about the oil in a Model T is that it have enough oil, but not too much. Fill it to the top petcock and keep it above the bottom petcock and it will run for a long time without problems. Second important thing is to change the oil often. The brand name is not important. Do NOT use any oil containing lead or molybdneum. Those can cause problems with the magneto.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:02 pm:

You two guys have No Idea what you are talking about!

I Defy any body to put two samples of oil in containers, heat to 210 degrees, and tell me they are the same thickness, when poured out, and not lie about it.

The Model T has been proven to run hotter then that at times.

My job is bearings, and engine rebuilding, I will pick the kind of oil that works best, as far as come backs, I will tell you again, I have never had one! what you Guys do with with your engines, I could care less, but don't try to Blow Smoke where it don't belong, for me and the Guys that want the truth. We have been using 30wt. in summer, for over 50 years for me, and always as my Dad before me. If it was wrong, we would have seen it a long time ago.

While your at it, show me where the oil tests show that a Model T engine was found to need 5, or 10, 30wt. I am thinking that this would be closer to your opinion, then Fact!


It probably takes twice as long for any lubrication to get to the bearings with a cold engine starting on 10W-30. 20W-50 would be even worse. "END QUOTE"

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Thin oil when hot will drain out of an engine bearing, more when at rest, 30 weight will stay better in the bearings, and will be there upon the first revolution. No matter what oil you use, one revolution running, will get the oil to the engine.


not sure why you would even want a straight weighted oil. "End Quote"

I know Matthew, and I don't think you ever will.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Solak on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:24 pm:


quote:

I Defy any body to put two samples of oil in containers, heat to 210 degrees, and tell me they are the same thickness, when poured out, and not lie about it.




Kohnke, see the webpage
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/


quote:

When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:25 pm:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/oil-viscosity.php

read this, explains what we are talking about.

multi grade oils are superior, and operate just the same as straight grade oils when they are cold, sure an oil that is like molassas will stay in a bearing, but what happens when it flings out and all your oil is stuck to the wall????????????


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 04:35 pm:

I'm with Mark Stewart and Eric Bruckner on this one!

Since when do T's need oil? - a mixture of MMO and modified bituminous roofing tar is all we need.

As Bob Corio says the MMO is only added for it's nice smell.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Max L. Christenson on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:23 pm:

So, does Kohnke Rebabbitting recommend straight 30W oil with detergent? It would be nice if you guys would quit beating around the bush and just simply state your specific preferences, and why.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:43 pm:

I prefer 10w-30, or 10w-40 detergent oil, unless your engine hasnt been rebuilt in the last 60+ years. in colder climates it wouldnt be a bad idea to switch 5w-30 to help stop the clutch from grabbing. generic brand oils have been proven to perform just as well as other premium brand oils, all have to meet SAE standards.

if you arent sure if you want to use a single grade or multi weight read the above posted articles.

if you use sae30 you wont notice much of a difference, but when cold it is alot thicker than multi wt. oils so make sure you have the tires chalked when starting in the winter!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:46 pm:

When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. "End Quote"

My tests come from rebuilding Bearings, and engines for 45 years, and draining hot oil sumps. There is no way in H, that the oils are the same, thickness, and protection.

You read it, I have lived it!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:47 pm:

Herm,
I've been debating with Royce on this for years, I, and "FORD AUSTRALIA" would agree with you.
The problem Ford had with a 5w oil was when cooling and then cold, it would drain the top end of oil, over head cams with the button hydraulic tappets rattled until pressure built up on a cold start, not good on new cars, problem was solved by using a oil no less than 10W.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:50 pm:

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
¯ Stephen Hawking

so draining hot oil sumps makes you smarter than than the worlds petroleum engineers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 05:51 pm:

30 Summer,20 Winter, and always Detergent


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Solak on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 06:03 pm:

Kohnke,

I wasn't debating what the best oil to use is. SAE 30 may be the best - I don't know. I quoted that webpage just to show that, by definition, heating SAE30 and 10W-30 to 210 degrees will result in the same viscosity for both oils.

What happens after or as they cool is a different matter. But your "I defy" statement was about heating to 210, not about cold oil and bearings. That's a different argument.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Tuesday, September 18, 2012 - 06:10 pm:

That makes sense Kerry!

It is common sense that thin oil would drain faster, than thicker oil, out of any thing. Thin oil is also not good on transmission gears, and transmission bushings, and cylinder walls need all the protection they can stand in time of greater heat.

Also 30 weight thins down to a thinner consistency.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:37 am:

There is the oil in the dips of the crankcase. It is there all the time the car is parked. As soon as the engine starts, the rods dip into the oil and it splashes all over the cylinders oiling the rings, wristpins and rods. The main bearings will also get oil from this source. So don't worry about oil which drains off while parked. However, the oil around the transmission will take some time to run by gravity down the oil lines to the front of the engine. Therefore, for cold starts, the multigrade oils will get to the front of the engine quicker than the 30 weight when the engine is cold. 5W-30 is a good oil to use.

Oil drain off while parked will be fastest when the engine is hot, so that is really not a factor in this case, as it will have already drained before it thickens. The important factor is how fast the oil reaches the front of the engine when cold.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

Why can't we all just get along, no ones mind is going to be changed. Now Ronnie, you see why I said(oh no!) Have fun, we are all right! KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:57 pm:

I guess every auto manufacturer on earth is wrong about which oil to use.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 12:10 am:

4 1/2 qt's of re-refined bulk oil in what could be 30 wt and a can of STP should be just about right. Or render some hog fat and pour it in the motor before it quagulates. Or get the new refined stuff. The new name is Kristco or something like that. Are you aware of a product called Vitalis?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Oil??

Drive out to some unused road in serious deterioration with a paint can, some metal window screen, a syphon hose, and a pick. Break up asphalt road surface with pick until you get fine chunks. Fill paint can with freshly broken asphalt. Syphon gasoline from tank into paintcan (with asphalt) to fill. Stir until asphalt is dissolved, strain thru window screen to remove rocks and other road debris, add resulting liquid to crankcase.

(Fabricated from "The Old Wive's Book of Modern Mechanical Knowledge, Family First Aid, and the Complete Critter Cookery", 19th edition (1879), Eliza W. Farnham Press, Nova Albion)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 03:28 pm:

The attached 2010 thread helped me to determine the best oil and antifreeze to use in my T here in Florida.

Oil: NAPA 5W-30 detergent
Anti-freeze: Peak Zerex IAT (Inorganic Accid technology)

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 07:53 pm:

Oops. Here it is. www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/174665.html. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 08:36 pm:

I think that the pistons and rings are lubricated by splash in a modern engine just as a Model T. Bearings are a different matter.

Of course, I may be corrected, as the only modern engine I have had apart is a 1943 Farmall M.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Thursday, September 20, 2012 - 11:09 pm:

No Ted, later, oil pump pressure systems, cranks do not dip into oil, cylinder lubrication is governed by oil thrown from con rod bearings, usually a oil hole as well in the top of the big end of the rod.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 12:03 am:

But it's still called splash lubrication.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 12:28 am:

If you want to call it splash that's fine, but in reality it's a controlled directional stream of lubrication, relying 100% on pump pressure to work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Knoll on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 02:14 am:

All I know is Both my Chevy Vega's ran straight 30 wt and both scored through the Chrome coated aluminum blocks and went to hell at 89,000 to 126,000 miles , not because of the 30 weight , but because they were crap engines. But my Dad's Chevy Citation with the "iron duke" motor that ran 30 wt made it to 300,000 miles when the old crank shaft end that the automatic transmission thingy bolted on sheared , and there I sat with a 300,000 mile engine that purred like a kitten and wouldnt go anywhere ....LOL ! .... Your results may vary....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 02:42 am:

How did it run so well without a flywheel?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 04:59 am:

I don't know a thing about oil engineering, but I do know that I have read and been told for fifty plus years by mechanics, oil suppliers, magazine articles, and everyone else that has had anything to do with engines that the whole idea of the multi viscosity oils was that when cold, they act as a thinner oil, and when hot, they act as a thicker oil. According to Herm, I guess all of them are wrong. Herm, you better get them straightened out before they get us all screwed up. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 05:14 am:

One other thing that I forgot. If I recall correctly, the multi viscosity oils don't mean how thick or thin the oil is at a certain temperature, it's just how they act at those temps. There is a lot going on there. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 11:48 am:

I don't know a thing about oil engineering, but I do know that I have read and been told for fifty plus years by mechanics, oil suppliers, magazine articles, and everyone else that has had anything to do with engines that the whole idea of the multi viscosity oils was that when cold, they act as a thinner oil, and when hot, they act as a thicker oil. According to Herm, I guess all of them are wrong. Herm, you better get them straightened out before they get us all screwed up. Dave

Don't sound like you ever dropped hot 10w30 out of an engine oil pan!!

There are two things that never get thicker when Hot, that is Gravy, and oil.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:17 pm:

MMMMMM, gravy.....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:18 pm:

I like my gravy about 30W.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 01:52 pm:

I have a drilled "A" crank system and have an auxiliary electric oil pump. I use the electric pump to pre-oil before starting the engine and then the engine driven oil pump takes over. I don't know much about oil but I do know that 30 wt oil gives me a stable oil pressure where the multi vis oil produces inconsistent readings, including much lower at operating temp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 03:56 pm:

Ham Gravy?? Yummm... tho I like mine thicker - about 600W.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:25 pm:

Susanne, You're obviously being facetious, and, by the way you, those of us who are serious don't apprec... Did you say ham gravy? I love ham gravy. It's my favorite part of Easter. Especially when applied to copious amounts of mashed potatoes. Then a little over a couple pieces of sliced ham and some sweet corn with a tall glass of ice cold milk. What were we talking about?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:39 pm:

To insure the correct G.V. (gravy viscosity) for any meal we consult the trusted shop manual developed by trusted ford engineer B. Crocker.

Also, Exact G.V. must take into account performance conditions such as will the gravy stand alone or be blended with items like the mashed potatoes as well as what side of the M.D. line you live on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 04:40 pm:

Don't even get me started on gravy viscosity index improving additives......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders-Auburn Al on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 05:14 pm:

Now I like this thread drift...redeye gravy n hoecake...now that's eat'n.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 10:27 pm:

Perhaps mixing redeye gravy with ham gravy will provide the multi-viscosity requirements we all seek.

Suzanne, the viscosity of cold ham gravy is actually a little thicker than 600 W.

Now where were we, oh yeah, mashed potatoes in a pressurized system. Hey, is that anything like John Belushi was attempting to demonstrate with his giant zit in Animal House?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 05:57 pm:

I will take this as a warning not to run Cold Ham Gravy in my Ruckstell Food Processor! However, I understand it will work in a Muncie Mixmaster when combined with mashing potatoes, then to combine them with butter, sour cream, chives, and a dash of paprika...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 07:26 pm:

Since we got off thread, don't forget the Tapatio.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 07:52 pm:

I understand the addition of roasted garlic acts as a high pressure additive, though not sure if that is for the Ruckstell or the driver. My wife severely limits my garlic intake.

Hunting trip coming up so gravy is sure to be on the menu.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 07:57 pm:

There's something going on here and it seems a bit half-baked...everyone should simmer down before this whole thing boils over and gets everyone in a pickle. I hate to sound like a real turkey but I ham only trying to help so there's no use crying over spilt milk.

I yam what I yam.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 07:59 pm:

Grooooaan, UNCLE....UNCLE.....


That's all I have to say about that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 08:02 pm:

HAHAHAHA....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Philip Berg on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 08:58 pm:

I'm a member of a diesel truck forum and oil has to be one of the most talked/posted subjects there is. So to stop all the nonsense someone started the "Oil is Oil" club.

Basically oil is oil use what you want. All modern oils are good. Choose your favorite flavor (weight) pour it in.

For my vehicles I maintain the weight (viscosity) per vehicle specification but run whatever name brand is on sale. All my vehicles run great.

After all "Oil is Oil"


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