Best wood band material?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Best wood band material?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:54 am:

so ive been tossing around the idea of making my own wood bands (im just that stupid).

my question is what wood do you guys think would be best?

ive been doing my research but information on wood is somwhat sparce. i found a study done by the U.S.N where they determined which wood wore better and hickory and hard maple were the best performers.

i would think there was some kind of wood that was generally accepted as "standard" when it came to making band brakes, it was quite common at one time.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:56 am:

Cotton wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 08:21 am:

I like bullet proof bands. :-)
Cotton Wood "would" work fine too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:22 am:

Bamboo is a good, inexpensive, hard, absorbent and pliable wood with perfectly straight grain that is often used for flooring. Would bamboo make a good band lining? It also grows very fast so one could grow their own. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:27 am:

Hey Ralph ain't cotton wood what they call a soft hardwood?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 09:49 am:

Here is the package Ralph posted before, note the material in the headline "Cottonwood".

Other brands of wood say "long grain wood".





I just get mine from a swell couple who makes them!



They fit and work as advertised!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 10:54 am:

Yes, Dexter, cottonwood (poplar) is soft, but technically a hardwood due to its grain. I woodn't want a harder wood.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 10:58 am:

Cotton wood is good but I believe Willow is better. It is not only the type of wood that is important, but it is also the cooking time in the secret sauce that is used to cure the wood. I have stuffed them into the transmission hole on a 26/27 without removing the hogs head with great success. Start from the left rear . . . driver's side that is.

Another very important thing is to check for ease of clipping the removable locking mechanism on and off with one hand, After many years of use they get burrs and little bumps that keep them from attaching and removing easily with one hand. I use a set of Harbor Freight's very small jeweler's files to get into the tiny places to remove the little obstructions. Then I put dots of paint on each ear and band so I don't pick up the wrong one with one hand. One dot for the reverse, two dots for the low, and three dots for the brake, and don't ask me how I know this important little fact.

I drill a tiny hole all the way through the wood where there already is one on the very end of the metal band. Then I reach down and hook that hole with a boot lace type home made stiff wire hook and pull it around.

I put reverse in first and push it way forward up and over the lip on the reverse drum. Then put in the low band followed by the brake band. It takes about an hour the first time you do it before you learn the tricks, But then you have just read them and should be faster. Post your times please, it's sort of a race ;^)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:07 am:

I, for one, would only use bands which were tried and proven to be dependable. I do have wood bands on one of my Model T's. I don't know what kind of wood it is, but was installed by Lee Frost Pierce over 20 years ago and they still work fine and very seldom need adjustment. Maybe Lee will see this post and reply.

You are putting your life, your passengers' lives and the lives of others as well as the future of your Model T at stake. If you do decide to make your own wood bands, be sure to use wood which has been proven good for the purpose intended and manufacture and install by methods known to work.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:16 am:

interestingly some bands were cork


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:26 am:

Hate to hijack the thread, but I'm sure some others will be wondering the same thing. I've heard some arguments against wood bands. Mainly that they chatter a lot, and because they aren't as soft as the cotton bands they can cut into the drums. While I'm not sure the second part of that is true, I'd like more opinions before considering them for my car. Is there anyone out there who's run wood and cotton bands before? Is there much difference in the quality of one over the other?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 11:33 am:

Jared, If the transmission parts are well worn and a bit loose, they can chatter. By simply adding a quart of automatic transmission fluid to the crank case the chatter goes away. There is a learning curve which is quite simple, get the car going without too much throttle and then lock it hard with your left foot as you apply more throttle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 12:07 pm:

I have wood bands from Jim Guinn in our '26 Roadster Pickup and I'm very happy with them. When my other T's need new bands, I'll probably put wood bands in them too.

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

After what you would have to probably go thru to get them round in the first place...Jim Guinn bands are a steal at their cost, but trying your own could be fun. Lately, On my last set for the '15, I even get super lazy and bought them pre-mounted from Jim.

Not to be the 'nah-nah' guy because I am the 'equal band type employer' :-):-) (each of my T's has something different in them) but wood bands don't chatter if put in right and driven right. I did a '27 for someone last year, no chatter, no noise, no fade; Bob Jablonski and I redid Tom Edison's '22 at West Orange a few months ago and even the newbie National Park Service driver/custodians don't get chatter or sounds; and I just put a new set in the '15 about 2 weeks ago and lol..low speed is absolute on/off with no feather, no chatter, no noise, no grunts.

As an 'equal opportunity user' I can say pretty much the same thing for those 'yellow' things first hand too but not today since the topic is wood. :-)

I will say, have new return springs handy, because one car done recently for someone wound up with floating original springs when set right...lol...and I took them out and stretched them, but then had to go back in again a week later when the new ones came.

Ralph Ricks says that wood done right doesn't need springs, and I never believed him...but I did find this rogue set to work exactly as he said it would with those springs floating before I went back later in the day and stretched them.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:12 pm:

George, that hurts: you thought I would lie about the springs? I left the springs out of the set of Guinn liners I just installed. The wood is stiffer than the band, so I'm not even careful about arcing the metal band.

As long as I have your attention, George, please go to the recent thread on Disc Barakes (sic) and check my arithmetic. Can you find the tensile strength of a grade 5, 3/8" SAE bolt and nut?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 01:52 pm:

Ralphie, I said I became a believer! OK, so you wanted 'convert'...lol...in due course my friend...:-)

I'll go over the other post too...but in answer to your question...

The bolt will have the smallest root diameter. And for a 3/8-24 that would yield the following for a genuine Grade 5 fastener...

Proof Load = 7,000 pounds
Minimum Yield Point load = 7500 pounds
Minimum Pure Tensile = 9,800 pounds

Now, I'd add a safety factor onto that...lol...no way I'd hang a near 3 ton plus load on a 3/8-24 thread....lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 06:27 pm:

I've run Jim Guinns Cottonwood bands in my car about 3,000 miles and love them. They don't require much adjustment after they settled in. I'm not bothered by any chattering but I've heard that a little trans fluid in the oil eliminates that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 09:34 am:

Thanks guys. This is why I love the forum. It's easy to get a lot of firsthand sources of wisdom. I will definitely be considering a set of Guinn bands.


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