I have been told the Model TT we found this week is a 1917. As it has no title we need to confirm the year before we get a title issued. It is a 125" wheel base, flat bed and a Roadster style cab. The only numbers we can find are on the engine #90188. There are no obvious signs of modifications, engine mounts appear stock. We have found photos online of the Model TT but they all show a closed cab for the early models. Do you know where we can get more definitive information? We would appreciate any and all help. Thank you, Joni
1917 TT would have been delivered as a chassis. Cabs were not furnished by Ford until 1924. Someone adapted a roadster body. It appears to be of the same vintage.
If you have the engine number, we can tell you when the engine was manufactured. There is no truck serial number. There is no guarantee that the engine is original. The motor number is just above the water inlet on the side of the block.
Ford Motor Company never produced a 1917 TT.
Only three TTs were produced by Ford in the 1917 calendar year. However, they were considered 1918 models.
Full blown TT production commenced in calendar 1918 and they were 1918 models.
Also - a roadster body on a TT chassis would be considered a "collage" that someone put together at a later date. It would not have come from the factory that way.
What is the serial number of your motor?
Look on the left side of the engine block just above the water inlet for the motor number. That will date the engine. Could date your TT, but perhaps the engine has been changed, that happens a lot. Details of the TT chassis can shed more light on the probable year of mfg.
The body is a car runabout body, that body dates to '22, maybe earlier if no instrument dash panel.
The best information I've seen tells us that there were only 3 TT's produced as 1917 year models. The assumption is that they were probably prototypes. Actual production started in 1918. If the engine number you're looking at is the engine serial number it indicates the a January 1912 production engine, which could not be an original engine in a TT. Is this number on the block at the water inlet on the left side of the engine? It should be stamped just above the water inlet on the boss.
The photo suggests an early TT due to the short running boards. Snap and post a couple of pictures of the rear end and the rear chassis cross member. They can help narrow down a field of possible years.
I am TOTALLY guessing, but it looks to me like a wood bed truck that very well may have had a wood cab also. If that guess is correct, then when the wood cab wore out someone replaced it with the roadster body. Remember, these old trucks were owned and operated by folks who needed them to do work and didn't care about much else. We find all manner of mix and match in bodies, engines, and pretty much everything else. My TT has been in our family since 1946 and I'm still not sure of it's year of production. I do know the engine is a replacement, so the serial number does not date the truck.
Have fun!!
I am, by no means, an expert on early TT trucks, but I was under the impression that Ford did make the TT, starting in 1917, but that a large number of TT's produced from 1917 to 1919, were used for service in WWI. Also, I thought that a large number of the early TT's had solid hard rubber rear tires and that pneumatic tires came after the start of production. I seem to remember reading these facts somewhere, but maybe I'm dreaming. I agree cabs were not available from Ford until the 20's and that goes for factory flatbeds and express beds, too.
I know nothing of TT's so will only comment on the roadster body.
The windshield mount brackets are of 1918 or later. (Bolt thru the side into the windshield not rivet front to back.)
When I got my coupe from outside Forest Grove Oregon there was a TT with a roadster body mounted on it. The guy you bought it from told me that was not where he got it, but in between when I bought mine and now could have gone through a coupe of people. Yours may or may not be the same one.
Thank you for all your comments. It is not the one in the photo. The engine number is #90188 which I knew was not the correct year. (1912) The dash is metal not wood but there is only a hole for the magnito & a small rectangle opening for another gauge? There is no battery box or ignition w/keys and the radiator is a small radiator ('17-'23). Based on some info above & additional research, the cab looks to be an '18 or '19. So If I can narrow down the year of the cab, should I title it with that year or the year of the TT frame? Thanks for all your help, Joni
Thanks to nail polish remover I found more engine numbers. Looks like it is #3690188 which puts the engine as a 1920. Thank you all for your time and responses.
Nail polish remover........that's one for the books.......and memory.......
Monday, January 12, 1920.
Look at the castings for the differential on the rear axle. The earlier ones had a bead cast at the outer end of the casting where the axle tube was fastened to it. The bead is around the opening where the tube is inserted.
Herb
Joni
Model T's are registered with the motor number. So you use that for dating. The motor in your TT chassis is Jan 1920, so that TT should be a 1920.
The body can be dated by the firewall, it should be wood. The metal instrument panel was used in 1919 to affix the ignition switch for the battery starter cars. If no starter, then no panel most cases with the early bodies.
Body without battery/starter, no dash panel.
Body with dash panel
Joni
One last thing, really like your TT with that runabout body on it...yours reminds me of this famous 'hauler' made for taking a Model T racer to the tracks...this TT chassis is fitted with a car runabout body and really it is neat
Dan
In 1982 I saw that car in the Arvada Co. area. But I was just starting in the T hobby I didn't know much about them. I was able to sit in both and look them all over but didn't know what I was looking for or at, wish I had taken pictures but hind sight is 20/20. thanks for the picture.
Bob
Ford did sell bodies as spare parts, so I guess it wouldn't be impossible that the original buyer ordered the body together with the TT chassis to be installed by the dealer?
Roger
I would say 'nope' to the idea that Ford sold complete bodies without a chassis. Parts of the body, fenders, etc would have been sold to the dealers.
Now many makers for aftermarket bodies wouldn't have sprung up if Ford sold bodies!
Ford would have the lowest prices like Henry did on the spare parts.
I like the bottom ad for the Roadster body.
Will Make Your Ford
Look Like a "Real" Car. Ha ha
Well I don't know for sure, Dan, but if they didn't sell bodies, why did Ford list prices for them in the 1923 dealers data book?
http://www.mtfca.com/books/ford.htm#dlpr
"NEW FORD BODY PRICES
Type List Frt./Del. Tax Price
Runabout 60 .25 85.00
Touring 80 .25 115.00
Coupe 235
2 Door Sedan 300
NOTE: Ford Sedan and Coupe bodies are equipped with gas tanks, floor boards, cushions and mats. Touring and Runabout Bodies are equipped with floor boards, rubber mats and cushions. No tops or windshields are included.
Body Prices are F.0.B. Detroit.
Orders are filled from nearest assembly plant. An extra charge will be made to cover freight from Detroit to assembly plant filling the order. If body is shipped from assembly plant a crating charge of $10.00 each will be made on Touring and Runabouts and $20.00 on closed bodies."
Roger
That's possible. Wouldn't have thought bodies were sold without a chassis, hard to ship them around. Thanks for that reference.
Perhaps the 1923 Dealers Data Book has those listed for dealers that had on hand older style bodies, or wanted to dress up chassis or old T's with the "new" 1923 Ford body type, slant windshield, and one-man top?
Dan
Joni, do the body mounts of the Roadster fit the frame brackets of the TT? It looks like the body isn't setting right in the rear. I ask this because the early TTs had different Body mounts than the later ones and I was wondering if the early mounts line up between the car and the TT. Fred
You might want to tell the seller to take it off Craigs list.
Thank you for all your responses. You guys are a great resource for info. I think the D.O.L will agree that it is an 1920. I found on the fact site of this website, that for a short period Aug-Nov of 1919, they used metal for the dash. When the metal became scarce, they went back to wood.
The body bolts are missing so the cab is sitting a little funky but it appears to match/line up. The frame doesn't show any signs of modifications.
Thank you for all your Help.
another thing you may wish to look at is the radiator shell. It should only have the 3/8 hole in it for the stud, not the big hole used later.
As far as the TT with the race car on it. I believe that vehicle used to be owned by Chris Eggsgard, aka Billy Poobah.