I don't know where to start. Bought it without really seeing much past the back of the "Backboard" It was piled with model A and T parts. I could see it had solid tires. Now that I got it near home I find it's loaded with aftermarket stuff. Universal aux. trans out back just in front of the rear end and a Muncie up front just behind the T trans. The solids on the rear are "Motor Wheel" wood fellow wheels that look to have the rim and solid tire pressed on?? It's got Aux. brakes on the rear. I have photos now so I can do some ID'ing of the brakes. I'll try and post a few pictures. The negative for me is that the frame is cut and stretched I believe to make room for the muncie.I don't know how I missed taking a full side view?? I missed the right front tire too??
Here are the Trans.
This thing has been locked away for 30+ years according to a neighbor.
NEAT!
More pics please!
i like it.
looks like something I would bring home!
You made a good find...double T's are alot of Fun! With and without wheels :D
So it's got two auxiliary transmissions? I wonder what kind of gear ratios you've got in there. I bet that thing would have all kinds of torque. Great find. Love to see what kind of plans you have for it.
Scott
If you decide not to keep it, you probably won't have any problem finding a new buyer even with the stretched frame.
I think those hard rubber tires will give you a very bumpy ride since they all appear to have a flat spot.
That homemade blacksmith-looking lever to the left of the Muncie is for shifting the rear mounted Universal transmission, huh? Must be a no-pattern shift similar to a Rocky Mountain 6 speed, huh? Incredible find!! Preserve it. Pics of the wood cab?. . . . Congrats
Willie, 30+ years of sitting on one side will do that. Imagine what balloon tires would have looked like?? It rolled out of the garage so easy I couldn't believe it. One thing I did notice, the original brake lever is not present? how the heck did you engage neutral? Both transmissions shift easily with the levers.
I too find that Universal very interesting. Of course, the Muncie provides underdrive, straight through, overdrive and a reverse. I'm very curious what the Universal provides. I believe George H. is right, it looks like a no pattern shifter, just forward and back. Does it have only two positions? I imagine it's too soon for you to know if it's a straight though and underdrive or a straight through and overdrive. Also, it would be interesting to know if your ring and worm rear end gears are a low or a high ratio set.
Lot's of variables to sort out. It's a GREAT truck and I too think you should preserve it, just going through it to assure reliable operation and safety, which of course will be a bunch of fun work.
Scott,
You undoubtedly already know this, but the Muncie has a true neutral. Therefore the neutral cam and it's usual use are not really necessary. However, without the lever you have no "parking" brake.
No Henry I didn't think about the muncie neutral. It's got external brakes on the rear I'm curious to see if it's still got the original shoes inside the drums. All the brake rods are present, just not hooked to anything forward.
My TT had a Universal transmission. Under and straight through. It is a constant mesh unit with a sliding dog for changing gears, a very nice unit. Just an aside the Universal box is solid brass and polishes up nicely!
I second that Universal is a great trans. I run a 3 speed universal in the speedster and it's easier to shift than a ruckstell if that's even possible. The car version has a steep overdrive something like 38% over. The truck like John said is a underdrive both have a neutral. I have found both to be quite rare. A great find!
I once read somewhere that the car Universal transmissions had a brass case and the truck units had cast iron. Obviously, based on John S's comment, that was not true. I'd love to see a brass truck unit all polished up.
This transmission set-up (Muncie and Universal) sure makes a great advertisement for auxiliary brakes. Not one but two ways to have no transmission brake at all.
Scott,
You probably know this too but be sure you get the TT emergency brake lever and crosspiece with the neutral cam. Of course the emergency brake lever isn't different from the car but they're usually connected to that crosspiece with the 1" longer or so bracket that mushrooms into a cam for the neutral adjustment. PM me if you can't find one. We're hungry for pictures of your truck and periodic updates of its preservation.
Here are the period adv for those aux trans.
The Universal adv says the case is made of bronze.
How did those solid tires with the holes handle at any speed ???
Universal transmissions are good. The TT I had years a go had a Universal direct and over. With the high speed rear it cruised along nicely at about 40 mph. There should be two bosses on the side of it. One will have the serial number, the other should say "over" or "under". At least that is the way mine was.
My first boat-tail roadster had the Universal three speed progressive shift. Not one, but two neutrals to get stuck in! The truth is, as Mike C says, it shifted so easily that I never even came close to stuck in neutral. And, yes, the overdrive ratio is high, much higher in mine than any 38 percent. It was one turn in, one and two-thirds turns out. That figures to about 66 percent over. I had a ten tooth pinion which made for wonderful gear choices. Underdrive would pull any hill. Direct was perfect around town, and would pull most hills. Hit the highway, slide it into overdrive and roll better than 3 to 1s. I wish I still had that transmission. I also wish I still had the car around it. But the boat-tail I have now is alright, too.
Both of those Universals were solid brass castings. I did have most of a TT Universal three speed progressive shift that only the rear casting was brass. The gear case was iron. I sold it years ago to a TT guy. So that variation is out there.
Check that Muncie. Don't count on it being an under/over/direct. Muncie did build a three speed version that was direct/under/granny under, also with a reverse. Several people in the SCVMTFC had one, I don't know if anyone ever used it.
Neat truck! I like it even more because it is an extended chassis. All those gears and brakes would make the perfect speedster hauler. Good luck with it.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Well went to take more photos and cover what I missed yesterday. This thing has more aftermerket little gizmos. Oiler of some kind from the hogshead to the front pan bolts, Oil sight gauge in lower petcock hole, Oil pan ear replacement bracket, Oil pan support band?? cradle?? As you can see by the photos they didn't go in for the store bought fender brace (half inch angle iron) figured it was good enough so they removed the fender irons??
Anyway, If someone recognizes the cab by the few brackets that there are maybe we can find out what it WAS? It came with a bucket of iron parts that I think are for some kind of wooden box (Grain Bed??) also there are a bunch of rope hooks (to tarp the wooden box??)
I also checked for brake pads inside the drums. The lever pulls free and there are shoes inside but condition is to be determined.
Every post I see about this truck makes me want to find one like it. I really liked Wayne's speedster hauler idea. Can't wait to see what happens with this one.
Awesome photos. Makes me wish I had it and glad I don't at the same time.
Thanks for sharing the pictures.
Rich
Got in touch with my friend Sergio from the Long Beach Model T Club, When I started asking a few questions he offered to come right over. Well he gave me a couple of directions to look at going and an equal number of lists of things to start doing. One major question he had for me was "I thought You Wanted a CAR??" I assured him that I did but a little?? diversion might not hurt. Sunday I'm headed for the 51st Annual Paradise Valley Swap Meet in San Bernardino, put on by the PV Model A Ford Club. This has classicly been a very good swap meet but I've missed it the past few years. I'll have my Swap spaces full of 2 new loads of finds, and I'll be picking through my own space for a few thing I know I have for the truck. My son will be with me so I'll have a little freedom to go hunting for several things I HOPE might be there. After the swap meet I'll be making a list for the T vendors to fill. Cab? Cab? I don't need no stinking cab ;) yet....
Makes me want a T truck now..
OOhhh, I drool - I love trucks - especially with lots of "aftermarkety" bits! great find.
Nice find Scott! That will make for one heck of a nice looking truck when it's done with all of those cool aftermarket goodies!
...with that Muncie and the Universal...it ought to move along the road real good to, with a properly built up T motor to lead
Here is another one with those same wheels. I sold the box off this and have been trying to sell the rest of it but that's not why I posted it on here. I'm thinking if you were hauling so slow that you needed two gear reductions the rough ride and the tires a little out of round wasn't going to bother you. Didn't all of the first trucks come with hard rubber tires???
i would buy that if i lived in the states and had money.
Yeah Clayton it's pretty cool....but it isn't a little roadster. I'm to the point where I've been looking for a body but not having the correct $$ at the right time. Most often distance is a major factor. BUT, the roadster will still happen.
Stan, When you posted this bunch of trucks you bought recently it made me cringe. A TT has always been on my list but when your working with a son who dreams of a roadster and we have a chance to work together what do you do. BUT, when you find the makings of a truck just 5-6 miles from home you have to move on it, RIGHT?? While making up my mind on just what I'm going to do with it I had you in the back of my mind anyway. Rims?? did you get any extra TT rear rims with your trucks?? And How/where do I measure to know just what I have? My truck came with what has turned out to be a gutted rear end but it does have wheels, axles and a carrier inside. No brakes or gears. One wheel has only 2 questionable spokes so I'm god to at least roll it around after I find a couple rims and tires. Fronts are easy I have enough spares to put either 21's or 30's on it without a problem. Stan, seeing your incomplete cab has given me an idea about how to go about starting a body for it!!
Scott, Playing the devil's advocate for just second if i might..
...what if this TT WAS the start of your roadster?
Retain all the goodies (Muncie, Universal, etc)...perhaps shorten the frame to roadster correct length? Add a standard pass. car Ruckstell? A strong, powerful engine?
...a nice early roadster body?
T trans + Muncie + Universal + Ruckstell = 36 speeds of fun!
...just sayin'
Believe me Clayton if the frame wasn't cut where it is the thought had already crossed my mind. I don't think the universal will work with the pass.T drive line? I would have to round up the right adapters. But you are right it would be a bunch of fun and it would be safe just about anywhere. There would be only a hand full of people that could look at the floor with all the levers and pedals and know how to get it to go.
Scott,
Heck, some of the hard work is already done! ...they cut it for you already! I believe the Universal's were made for both and had different spool castings depending on what application they were purchased for, but I could be wrong. I don't think it would take much to adapt to a Pass. car drive shaft/axle.
It would make one stout looking T roadster!
No speedster, Leave it as a truck! Or build a tourer with extra rows of seats...
Kep, Rest easy friend. This particular truck will remain a truck while in my care. I'm liking the tourer/shooting break/depot hack type configuration. It would make it nice to have folks along while moving so slow....
I know someone that was making a TT with a FABCO conversion into a speedster hauler. I vote that you either keep the chassis as it is or just pass it on to someone who will. I am sure that you can find lots of people who will trade a standard TT;)
Just my 2 cents
Scott,
...you could also get your on a Livingood 4WD front axle, add a closed cab and an "express truck" bed (like Stan's) and make a nasty 4WD TT shop truck
That is one I have always wanted to build, but I would adapt a second set of the big 1-ton 23" TT rear wheels with stock passenger car front hubs so I could run the big 23" wheels on all fours..
...would give it a better look as a 1-ton 4x4.
You know what, I think we have the same brain just born 30years apart. I have had the big front wheel idea for some time but not the livingood. I've always wondered how the heck the TT carried any weight with the small front wheels.
Scott,
Check the forum search.
I think "fast" Frank Harris is building a Mountain Wagon. That would be interesting.
Larry
Scott,
We must! I always thought they would just look better...way stouter and "truck like" with the big wheels on all fours. You could also go a step further from the livingood...
...Paddle tires in front and a "Snowbird" double axle / snow-mobile treads in the back... 1-ton 6x6 :D
I would love to build a 4x4 shop truck (shortened TT chassis), closed cab (using a '26-7 coupe cowl and doors for a bigger cab, steel bed, full fenders/running boards, Strong T motor, Livingood, TT 23" wheels on all fours, Headache rack, spots, winch.
A real Model T shop truck
Stop giving me ideas i have too many cars as it is.
Scott,Clayton, the last of the Tt trucks sold in Australia had the same heavy wheels on the front as were fitted on the rear. It did make them look far more substantial. I always wonder what happened to just such a barn fresh original offered to me in my youth, but rejected by me as far too slow to be useful!
Allan from down under.
You guys are making me want to start searching for a TT, and I haven't got my T pickup even close to where I want it.
I put up some pictures of this at the swap meet last sunday (didn't include a price wink, wink I think I want it to stay) You know what happened? I was asked if I wanted to buy another one! I did however pick up a nice pair of fenders for it!
Call Mr.Livengood. His son and grandson are still making the 4X4 units on order.
Bob
Scott, I wonder what all came with the truck you were offered. Was it roughly the same setup?
Does anyone have a phone number for Mr. Livengood who makes the 4X4"s???
Jared, It's advertised right here in the classifieds. Carl is a real nice guy. I bought a bunch of parts from him 3 years ago.
Car for Sale: 1925 "TT" Closed cab truck,have script flatbed & DumpBody too..Ruckstell,Jumbo aux.trans.dist....Runs ,frame painted,body in primer,Lots of extra parts...Also start of a Brass Rad.car,tapered springs etc.Call with questions...home#evenings 909-336-7555
Carl Sorenson <nospamtinlizziedriver@yahoo.com> 909-266-4659
PO Box 855, Skyforest, CA USA - Sun Sep 30 19:31:33 2012
Kevin
Livingood Mfg. Co. Jessie R Livingood
PO. Box 125 Graysville Pa. 15337
Ph. 724-428-3618
Bob
Scott, I have a TT C Cab and factory bed. The rear axle is centered so all the load is in the rear wheels. Now you can put a heavy load on the front and load the front wheels but if you are loaded balanced it rides smooth. I have the 21" up front. Scott