Battery

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Battery
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 08:43 am:

I'm in the process in getting a '20 started. Pulled out the battery and it was hooked up with a positive ground.
Has that effected any of the electric, generator,starter,lights and other electric things???


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 09:22 am:

I would think that the only thing it could affect is the generator as I'm sure they were made for neg. ground.

perhaps putting the battery in backwards would flash the gen winding so it would put out positive to the battery. Others will chime in.

Definitely no effect on any lighting or accessories.

Someone comment please ..... would the starter turn backwards ?

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 10:52 am:

Bud, the starter is smarter than the owners, it knows which direction to turn even if the owner does not know the difference between neg and pos.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:02 am:

Turn it around and see what happens!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:45 am:

While negative ground is correct for a Model T, either will work perfectly well for the starter, lights, horn.

The generator needs to be 'told' which configuration is in use. Assuming you have a cutout on the generator (not a modern voltage regulator, which wouldn't work on positive ground anyway), you need to "flash" the generator whenever you turn a battery around. It's a simple procedure, anyone can do it, and I'll describe it as I remember it - others will tell you if I get it wrong.

With the engine running, take a piece of wire, or the handles of a pair of pliers, and momentarily connect the stud on the top of the generator to the output side of the cutout. In other words, short out the cutout. Just for a moment - that's why it's called "flashing."

The part I'm hazy about is whether this should be done with the engine running. Others will chime in.

You also might need to reverse the connections on the back of the ammeter if it reads the wrong way. This will not hurt anything, it will simply be a curiosity. Obviously, it should read 'minus' if you turn on the lights with the engine not running.

One thing to be aware of - the posts on a battery are slightly different diameters. This was done to make it hard for a doofus to put the battery in the wrong way, but doofi are clever. You may need to open up one of the clamps more than you thought should be necessary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Sims on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:50 am:

Change the batt to neg ground then remove the wire from the gen cutout and strike it to the post on the gen then re install the wire to the cutout. You may need to reverse the wires on the ammeter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 09:33 pm:

I have flashed generators on AT6 Texan trainers. We always did it with the engine running.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 01:42 am:

You can NOT make a starter run backwards by turning the battery around.
But the headlights will suck light and turn the daytime into darkness.
Oh, and you flash the generator with the engine stopped.
If you turn the lights on and the amp meter shows discharge you can just leave the battery that way. Who cares if it is positive or negative ground?
But flash the gen just to be safe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 11:17 am:

The cut out will if you go have a new type. If it's a mechanical cutout, they work ether way. If it's a modern voltage regulator or diode, you will need to change it to Model A type which was made for positive ground.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

Easier than to change things around would be to leave the battery positive ground if everything else works. If not, reverse the battery, and/or replace what is not working that way. If you use negative ground, as Model T came from the factory, then every part you buy from the vendors will work as intended. And if you go on tour, with the club and have a problem, someone else on the tour might have a part to help you, otherwise, your car will be an oddball and unlikely they can help.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 01:36 pm:

When I bought the '20 Coupe it was set up for + ground.
There's nothing to be gained by changing it so I'm leaving it that way.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 10:53 am:

I just want to point out that most T folks know that a T is negative ground. Thus if you end up jump starting it on a tour for some reason you will most likely have someone hook the jumper cables up backwards. I always recommend changing the T back to negative ground if you find it positive ground. Installing one of our VR's to the wrong polarity will smoke the VR to total ruin. Not so a diode cutout. Diode cutout will just not work but will show a discharge of the battery (through the generator as a motor) the moment you hook it up. If you have no solid state devices on the car that were already wired wrong too, I would change it to negative ground since it can be done in mere minutes and then you are safer since there is less danger of someone not knowing your car is backwards and it is very easy to do at this point. I generally subscribe to the idea of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but I consider a car wired backwards as being "broke".

Your mileage may vary.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 01:34 pm:

Thanks for all your input. It now has a new 6V battery and it is now negative ground.


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