Flywheel Pressure Fed Outside Oiling system

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Flywheel Pressure Fed Outside Oiling system
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 10:32 am:

I originally was going to post this post on the recent thread asking about the best oil to use, but I decided it rated it's own thread, since it is in regards to a Model T pioneer, Jess Bonar.

In 1977, I attended a Model A club meeting in Lakeland, FL held at one of my college professor's houses. Since there were no local Model T clubs that I knew of, this was the next best thing. At this meeting I struck up a conversation with an elderly gentleman that had not said much up until I mentioned my Model T. He lit up and said he too was a Model T man and began asking me all about my Model T. He said he had a shop in Polk City, Florida in which he worked on Model A and Model T engines, but he much preferred working on Model T's. I was very impressed with his knowledge of model T's so I told him I was in the process of overhauling my engine and what were his specialties. He could do it all, so I made arrangements to take my engine over to him for his evaluation. Among many things he said my engine needed, he suggested that I allow him to install his outside oiler on my engine. I was reluctant about having holes drilled into my hogshead and crankcase, but he showed me one he had just done and assured me I would not regret it because it was the best oiler available, so I consented.

The flywheel pressure fed outside oiling system, Jess installed on my engine, was not yet available on the market, so it is one of the first prototypes of this kind. It had an oil intake scoop mounted at the 10:00 position on top of the hogshead, in line with the flywheel, ring gear and magnets, which, when spinning counterclockwise (from the driver's perspective), force-fed oil, at high pressure, into the intake scoop and through a 3/8" tube which angled down the leftside of the engine and entered the crankcase between the #1 & #2 cylinders and sprayed a tremendous amount oil all throughout the front half of the crankcase.

At the time, I did not realize I was talking to one of the foremost Model T experts and pioneers in the world, until 2010 when Model T historian and author, Luke Dahlinger told me here on the Forum in the following thread (www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/177128.html) that I had been dealing with Jess Bonar, who was the inventor of this outside oiler system. Luke informed me that Jess was good friends with Don Snyder who would come down to visit him in Florida and vacation together, so we surmised that Jess probably allowed Don to market his invention through his Model T auto supply. It is now available through Snyder's and Langs and I highly recommend it, but I doubt if it is as well made and beefy as the one installed by Jess back in '77.

Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Gumbinger, Kenosha, WI on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 11:49 am:

Jim - Thanks for the tip on the oiler.

I must admit that your engine looks super clean. Could you please tell us how you keep it so clean and / or stop any leaks?

Thanks, Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 01:56 pm:

Keith. Thank you. When I assembled it, it took much longer than usual as I applied the gaskets in several steps which took several days. Many folks make the mistake of trying to install the gaskets all at the same time and assemble the engine in one day. When one gets in a hurry on such a crucial endeavor, mistakes are made, gaskets shift, parts are misaligned, gaskets tear and sealants set up before they are able to seal the area intended. Basically, the following method ensures that the gaskets stay in place as the parts are fitted together and perfectly aligned

To begin with, I had my pan trued up on a KW pan jig.

1. Engine block:

Step 1.

a. The R & L crankcase gaskets on each side where they fit against the pan were installed using the right Stuff on the underside of the gaskets and the block was carefully lowered onto the pan and bolted tightly into place. Do not install the front gasket at this point. Just the right and left sides.

b. The rear timing gear cover (generator mount) side gasket was also coated on the engine side with the Right Stuff and bolted tightly in place, both vertically and from underneath. Let sit all night.

Step 2.

a. The next day, the bolts were loosened, the rear timing gear cover (generator mount) was removed and the block was lifted off with a hoist and the top portion of the gasket covered with the right stuff.

b. A thin coat of oil was applied to the rubber seal of the modern crankshaft seal and it was inserted onto the crankshaft and the lower half of the crankshaft seal enclosure in the pan was packed with the Right Stuff.

c. The block was carefully lowered in place, carefully aligned and bolted tightly in place and the excess Right Stuff that squeezed out from around the lower half of modern crankshaft pan seal is smoothed off and cleaned. It might be a good idea to set the front timing gear cover in place to make sure the horizontal bolt holes in the timing gear cover are aligned with those in the pan.

d. The outer surface of the rear timing gear cover (generator mount) side mount gasket and lower machined face of the mount that sits on top of the pan gasket is coated with the right stuff and bolted tightly in place, making sure the front of the generator mounting is aligned with the front of the engine block where the two surfaces make up the surface covered by the timing gear cover. Let sit all night.

Step 3.

a. The bottom of the horizontal front timing gear cover gasket is coated with the Right Stuff and gently put in place on the pan and the back of the vertical timing gear cover gasket is coated with the Right Stuff and carefully put in place on front of the block. The timing gear front cover is tightly bolted in place using the generator to secure the right half of the timing gear cover so a uniform fit is attained. When there is a horizontal and vertical surface, the bolts must be gradually tightened a little at a time so that all surfaces are tight. If you tighten the horizontal surface first, you might make it so that the vertical surface cannot attain a good seal, so all bolts must be gradually tightened until a good seal is attained on all surfaces, at which time, all of the bolts can be tightened. Let sit all night.

b. The next day, remove all bolts and the front timing gear cover and coat the outer surface of the horizontal and vertical gaskets with the Right Stuff and pack the upper crankshaft seal enclosure with the Right Stuff and gently place the front timing gear cover in place, carefully aligning the cover with the bolt holes and the timing gear shaft. Once the alignment is perfect, bolt tightly in place and clean off excess Right Stuff that has squeezed out around the crankshaft modern seal. Let sit all night.

Hogshead:

Step 1.

a. Stretch the felt as much as possible and drape over the round portion of the block where the hogshead will seal, then using a sharp razorblade, trim the felt so that it ends at the pan on each side. I recall cutting off 3/4" from each side after stretching. After stretching and cutting the felt, generously coat the round machined surface with the Right Stuff also coating the underside of the felt with sealant, and imbed the felt in the Right Stuff taking care that the ends of the felt sit on the surface of the pan to each side of the block.

b. Coat the R & L pan with the Right Stuff and carefully apply each gasket over the holes. Take some Saran Wrap and place it over the felt so when the hogshead is lowered in place, it won'r squeeze up and lock the hogshead in place as we will still need to remove the hogshead to apply the Right Stuff to the top of the gaskets and felt.

c. Gently lower the hogshead in place and tightly bolt all of the bolts to hold the hogshead in place. If your engine has the two bolts that secure the hogshead to the block, remember the rule about gradually tightening bolts when a horizontal and vertical surface are involved so that all surfaces are tight. Let sit all night.

c. The next day, remove the hogshead and remove the Saran wrap from the felt. There should be a nice groove in the felt. Be sure your bands are in place and wired together. Coat the groove of the felt liberally with the Right Stuff all the way around with a little extra on each side where the block sits on the pan and where the ends of the felt sit on the pan. Coat the top of the R & L gaskets and gently lower the hoghead in place making sure the clutch release ring fits over the pulley. Tightly bolt the hogshead in place making sure the rear of the hogshead is perfectly aligned with the rear of the pan.

Since 2010 I have had no oil leaks whatsoever.

Jim Patrick.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 02:54 pm:

I carefully read what you posted, and agree that method would surely seal the oil inside the engine and eliminate leaks. Two things which were not mentioned, and which are very important to have a good running and trouble free engine were not mentioned. 1. Alignment of the timing gear cover with the camshaft so that the timer will be centered. 2. Proper alignment of the 4th main with the rear of the transmission. These could be easily done with your method of sealing the gaskets. (see other posts on these two subjects.)
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 03:13 pm:

Thank you Norm. I respect your opinion and am glad you concur. I did however mention the alignment of the cam shaft (only I referred to it as the timing gear shaft) to the timing gear cover (Engine Block, step 3b) and the rear 4th main surfaces (Hogshead, step 1c, last sentence). I suppose I should have mentioned the installation of the rearmost 4th main gasket, which is done via the same method. Apply Right Stuff to the inside of the gasket and apply the gasket to the rear of the engine and bolt the ball cap tightly in place. Let sit over night. This will ensure that the gasket remain firmly in place during the difficult process of attaching the ball cap universal joint to the rear of the engine at which time, the Right Stuff would be applied to the outer surface of the 4th main gasket. Thanks again for your input. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 07:56 pm:

PS. One more thing. The one piece oil pan bottom access panel gasket can be applied in one step by applying The Right Stuff to both sides of the gasket, but it is important to apply the Right Stuff to the threads of the bolts to prevent the oil from escaping out around each hole, by seeping past the threads through capillary action. As a matter of fact, it is important to apply the Right Stuff to the threads of any bolt that enters the crankcase for this reason. For example, the four bendix cover screws, the six hogshead transmission access panel screws, the four bolts that secure the starter to the hogshead and several bolts that go up through the bottom of the oil pan into the crankcase. I believe there are two under the starter. Anyway, you get the idea. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gene Carrothers Huntington Beach on Friday, September 21, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

Nice looking engine, Jim, I don't think you gave enough credit to the sealant/adhesive that you used.
One of our local club M500 racers told me about the Right Stuff made by Permatex and I'll swear by it. I'll never bolt up another piece of machinery with anything else to prevent leaks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Saturday, September 22, 2012 - 12:44 pm:

Jim has gone through a lot of work to put the engine together the way he did.
I would say it was worth every hour he spent.
I certainly am glad he took more time to tell us about it in the long explanation he just wrote up.
That is a 'print and save' post for sure.


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration