I'm getting to where I can recognize a lot of T parts, but not these. What do I have?
Kero Lamp mounting brackets???
26-27 side lamp brackets for a touring or a roadster.
That would be my guess to.Side light mounts.
Might could be used for tail lights to,if a application for 2 on the back of a T was needed.
Side light mounts for a 26-27. Rather scarce.
Good score Steve.
Are you sure for 26/27? the encyclopedia states that side lamps stopped being fitted in late 25.
These were an accidental purchase. At the auction last week I bought a bundle of about a dozen wrenches, mostly #2335, and these were wired to them.
Still, SCORE !!!! lol
Steve,
"Rather scarce". In 35 years of being involved with T's I have only seen 2 sets of those.
Steve, if its not asking too much a thread on your tool collection would be much appreciated. I need ideas as to what I am missing in my measly collection.
It would be interesting to see a late T with those side mount lights. I have never seen a late T with those side lamps. But there are a few things I havent seen. Aybody out there have one or know of a pic of one? Interesting for sure.
I looked at them for 1/10 of a second and answered your question "...something I want for my 26."
Of course I still need the lamps too, but gotta start someplace. Did any of those wrenches have late model oil lamps wired to them?
I see these are reproduced, but original always seems cooler.
Is the mounting end big enough for a 26. The 26 mounting end is quite a bit wider than a 25. Hold them up against a 26 windshield bracket bolts and see if they fit. The 26 side light bracket bolt holes are 2 1/2 inches center to center. The 25 side light bracket bolt holes are 2 inches center to center .
They would have or could have been on a no starter car and I believe that you could still get one in to the 27 year if wanted.
Bob
The one labeled 45160 is for the left side on a touring/roadster.
Hope the other one is cast/stamped 45159, that's the one for the right side.
Looks like they took a standard sidelamp, and the actual period of use has always been a bit of a jump ball (and why a bit rare) as the lamp number 6561/6561X was changed to a 6561R in January 1927. I'm not sure, but always believed the 'R' at the end of a Ford number was meant to be 'replacement only'?
I don't think 26/27s had the kerosene lamps, in fact, I think they went out when electric headlights came in. I put them on my 23 because I think they look cool. Am I correct???
Dave, the holes on these are 23/8" center to center.
Brian, here's a long discussion that covers a lot of tools: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/249390.html.
Think i might still have a pair of those somewhere.
'25 or '26/27, they're "scarce" used only on non-electric cars, and not many were made/or survived to today. Another scarce part is the non-demountable metal felloe wheels used on these cars (yes, 30x3-1/2 on rear, 30 x 3 on front, even that late!).
Hal,
There are 26's...but I don't think there are 27's.
Ford offered a 'Yugo' version in the '26 model year...black radiator/no starter/no gen/mag headlights/mag horn/clinchers/special key switch plate without ammeter cut-out/no spare carier and no spare/no battery/no battery box.
Not documented at all in Ford advertising of the era, and I'm not sure there ever were 'Yugo' version Tourings.
The secret in my opinion is to watch the price list change records for '26 as to 'when'. The runabout/roadster as announced was at $360 (I think). For January 26 only...there was a list price of $250 for the Roadster. I think this is the period the Yugo versions were made as it just makes sense with anything bolted on deleted and left over oil lamps put on.
BTW...those brackets? They mount to the top two holes of the window stanchion using the same mounting bolts...thats why they have square holes, to catch the carriage heads.
is there any surviving cars like that? I'd be interested in seeing what one would look like!
Steve Jeff:
It sounds like you definatly have the 26 Sidelight brackets. 2 3/8" would be way to wide for a 25 and back. They are very rare.
I cannot lay claim to having known Lorin Sorensen, but I did meet him a few times. A very good friend of mine was a good friend of Lorin's. With a common interest in Ford history, Lorin sometimes left a few (few hundred) photos for my friend to look at. I happened to stop by one evening and got to look at a bunch of them. I do not know if these were ever published or not. But there were quite a few photos of 1926 tourings and runabouts with 30X3 tires in front and sidelamps. There was even a copy of sales paperwork for a no starter, non-demountable car. I wish I had paid more attention at the time. I was just too interested in the earlier stuff.
I often wonder what became of all those photos he had.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
This car was featured in the Model T Times ( September - October 2009.) Just the basic car. Very interesting . Regards, John
I think it is well documented that there were late '26-'27 open cars that had no starters or generators and had oil sidelights, tail lights and non demountable wheels. Dave
In 1927 model year wire wheels, a starter and a charging system were standard. The last year for those brackets was 1926 model year, and very few were sold.
This interesting thread is a good indication why Ford's
T sales were dropping. Electric lights were the way to go and it makes you wonder why Ford was still using the oil lamps. A good question to ask would be if Ford was the last to use oil lamps. They are neat for T guys but times were changing in the late twenties and Ford was slow to get it and thats when the Model A came along.
Steve I'd like to purchase those brackets as I have the electric lights for those, they were accy lights danuser88@ktis.net
Royce,
You mentioned above that wire wheels were standard for the 1927s but did you really mean that or just that the 21 inch balloon tires were standard either on the 21 inch demountable wood wheels or the optional 21 inch wire wheels? At: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/1927.htm Bruce (RIP) for the 1927 has, “Starter and 21-inch demountable wheels were standard on all cars. Starter was optional on the truck. Wire wheels were an option but became standard equipment on closed cars at during the last several months of production.” Or if you do believe the 21 inch wire wheels became standard on all cars during 1927, please let me know source so I can add that to the other information I have. Thanks!
John, thank you for posting the photo of the “Lowest Priced Car in the 1926 Ford Line Up.” Of course Ford intended people to come in and ask about the low priced car and then upgrade to the starter/generator and demountable rims. Also of interest to me is that Gordon and Marci Koll actually built the car up from parts. He traded some labor (putting on a roof) with a neighbor for the roadster body. After he got the body he discovered it was an early 1926 body he decided to obtain the rest of the chassis etc. and make it into the lowest priced $260 Runabout. He re-restored much of the car and won the 2009 Stynoski award.
For the 1925 model year, there was an article that explained that for the 1925 touring without the starter & demountables, it was actually sold at a loss of $22 to the company. But the advertisement value and bringing the customers into the show room was considered worth it. Ref Trent’s letter to the editor on page 14 of the Jul – Aug 1998 “Vintage Ford.” I do not know what the “loss” on the 1926 roadster was or if it perhaps broke even. But the goal was to have customers come in so they could be sold a more equipped car.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Scarce? I have several sets of these.
Sorry, guys, they're gone already. Danial, you're sitting on a goldmine.
Steve, I went out to the shop and pulled 6 of them out of the box. I'm guessing there are at least that many more. But the bad news is that I believe these to be repros....
Id still like a set. I will PM you Danial
Hey Erich, sent you a pic. If you can use them, I can drop them in UPS at work on Monday.
Langs was selling repro brass copies of those a few years ago and may still have some. I bought a pair about 15 years ago. I still have them, but they are lost. Seems like they were about $50 a pair.
I also got the lights at Hershey about five years ago.
Here's a few of the ones I dug out. Most of them have "23-25" cast into them.<p>
Looks like you have three kinds, all of them different from the ones at the top of the page. Note round and square holes and different shapes.
Indeed. Hadn't paid attention to the hole shape but did see that they were different from yours. I have more in the shop...should prob pull those out and see what they are.
Someone once posted a pic of what a depot hack if I recall correctly, that used a set similar to the ones on the left there.
Danial, these all appear to be for the 23-25 as you stated. none for the 26. originals would have square holes.
Are these worth messing with on eBay or are they too common? I have no use for them, otherwise.
The new ones sell for $50 to $55 a pair.
Danial,
Nah, no one wants them--but, just to be nice, you can send them to me so they aren't in your way anymore. . .
David D. (just bein' helpful!)
http://www.chaffinsgarage.com/l-z/sidebra.htm
Also check item 3655cs. Isn't that a repro of the item at the top of the thread?
Steve, nice parts to have been found by you!
The only original pair of true rare '26-'27 style side lamp brackets I have seen were at Chickasha, and asking price was $400.
This restored '27 has non-starter, and kerosene tail lamp and kerosene side lamps, using the late style brackets.
That's a beautiful car, Dan. And those lamps came on that car from Ford that way? I had no idea they were putting them on the cars that late in the game.
David, I would gladly trade a set of these for a choke rod (the one coming out of the dash) that is the correct length for my car. Grin...and if you don't have one of those then I'd send you a set if you really needed them...