SAFE? Old dry-rotted wood=spoke wheel?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: SAFE? Old dry-rotted wood=spoke wheel?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

Want to take my car out for a short test drive, 20 mph or so for a mile or two. Gravel road. Is there a good chance a noticeably aged and dry-rotted wood-spoke wheel will simply come apart at the least provocation? Never driven anything with wood wheels, Just trying not to be stupid. Also, can the wire wheels be used on a '21 Touring?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

One, lift each corner of the car, and tap each spoke on each wheel. Anything that sounds like rotten wood - is. Not safe to drive on.

Two, while each wheel is in the air, pull, push, and prod to check both each spoke and the rim/tire for wobble. Wobble is not good.

Three - sure, you can put the wire wheels off the improved car on yours (if you can find a set) or a set of aftermarket or repops, but for less you can have someone like the Stutzmans redo your wheels, they stay wood and are new and safe. AND authentic!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 09:32 pm:

Susanne, thanks that was very helpful. Didn't want to go off half-cocked, assuming everything would stay together. I'd like to keep the original wood wheels, will check your suggestion for Stutzman's and/or replacement spokes. Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 09:42 pm:

I have a serviceable set on my car, but they're probably 50 years old now, and while I know they're not dry rotted, they are poppy and creaky enough where I've been looking at getting them redone before I try any more 50 MPH+ land speed record attempts!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

Sloppy/floppy wheels are often caused (umm .. at least in my case) .. by loose hub bolts. The fronts are easy peasy to tighten. Just do it! I don't do in order by adjacent bolts .. just to, say 12 and 6 oclock, then 9 and 3, etc. Run for a bit and do again. The rears are much more of a pain .. but only because you need to pull them to do it... then make sure the bolts aren't hitting on any of the brake innards.

One fellow hear suggested (I think) .. or at least said they used to .. run your wheels into the creek and let set for a while to swell up.
Dry and creaky is one thing .. soft and punky is another.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, September 23, 2012 - 10:04 pm:

Using the Regan press you can respoke your own wheels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKZ7WrfHdf8

Since making the video I've discovered that with the cardboard collar on the hub the paper cylinder isn't needed, and you don't have to fasten the felloe in place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 12:46 am:

Understand on metal felloe wheels that's an option, not so easy on wood felloes. Oh yeah, creeking your wheels is a temp fix IF your spokes aren't rotted. And it's only good until the wood dries back out. Someone said a mix of Linseed oil and Turps lasts longer as a wood expansion agent... me? I'll respoke for the time being. ;)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 01:04 am:

Another option is to rebuild or shim your original sound but dry wheels. That is what John Semprez is helping me do on my 14. We have the fronts all apart cleaning them and sandblasting the rims. Next step is to shim the spokes, install the fellows and shrinking the rim back on. Since I work at the speed of lightning I hope to have them close to assembled by Halloween.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 03:49 am:

I have always wondered about the term "dry rotted". How does wood rot when dry? In my own very unprofessional opinion, I think the wood rots when it gets wet for awhile, and then dries out. Then, when it is found, people think it is "dry rotted". I have seen this in old houses, buildings and other wooden structures. Just curious, does anyone know if "dry rot" is possible? Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 04:14 am:

Dry rot is a fungi in the wood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 04:49 am:

Can fungi exist in dry wood? If so, why doesn't all dry wood rot? I am just curious. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Seth - Ohio on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 07:08 am:

David,

Fungi requires very little moisture to exist. If the moisture content in the air is at the correct level the wood studs in your house will develop dry rot and fall down. It is a VERY SLOW process.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 09:34 am:

Steve, where did you find the plans for such a press? I've got a set of 21 inch wheels that probably need half the spokes replaced before they'd be close to safe, and I've always wanted to learn re-spoking. You make it look easy, and kinda fun.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David A. Siver on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 09:52 am:

I found this plan somewhere, could have been this forum. I'm having a problem with CRS lately.

application/pdfWheel Press Plan
WheelpressA2.pdf (95.6 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 10:12 am:

My father-in-law had a Studebaker with wood wheels that was his daily driver.
Every Friday night he pulled a loose, creaky wheel off and put it in a washtub full of water for the weekend.
Sunday night re-installed and drove it to work another week.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 11:12 am:

You could drive it for a few miles and find out whether the wheels will support the car, but if they don't, it could be very dangerous and you could be stuck in an inconvenient location and it would be much harder to get the car home with broken wheels.

It is best to test the spokes and tighten them first. If they are rotted, replace them. If you have steel felloes, you can replace the spokes yourself. The vendors sell Hickory spokes. You need to specify the length and the size tenon. The tenon is the part which goes through the felloe. Many posters have indicated good results with re-spoking their own wheels.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 11:42 am:

Thanks for the advice and input. Three wheels look good, will inspect all of them thoroughly and correct any problems--esp on the one I'm concerned with. Could be original wheel for all I know. I do know from the car's history that it sat outside for many years in all kinds of sun and weather. I was interested in the video, didn't know you could replace the wood spokes with metal ones.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 11:50 am:

Hey Gerrit, If you are referring to the video posted by Steve Jelf, those are wood spokes, he just did an amazing job of finishing them.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Semprez-Templeton, CA on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 08:54 pm:

gerrit,

Do you have steel felloe or wood felloe wheels?

Steel felloe wheels are easy and relatively inexpensive to repair as you have seen from Steve Jelf's Video, Just buy new spokes and press them into place.

The wheels Bill Dodd and I are restoring are wood felloe Wheels and are a bit more complected to repair.

Bill's wheels had no rot but the wood had shrunk over the years. We are adding length to the spokes with steel washers and repairing minor splits in the felloes themselves. If needed we will add a shim between the felloe and rim to get a factory fit. Shims will also be added between the spokes where they mate in the hubs as needed.

Bill, Didn't you know all this, wasn't this your idea? - John-


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Monday, September 24, 2012 - 11:37 pm:

John
As I said before, I know how to heat with wood. Your showing me how to restore the wood :-)

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By gerrit on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 11:40 pm:

John S--I have to check these wheels, as the car is in my cousin's garage and he doesn't live right around the corner. The discussion about steel and wood felloes has opened a new chapter for me in the world of model T's. Gustaf--could have sworn the spokes in the vid made a metallic ringing noise when struck. Have to have my ears checked. Thanks for the input, I'll do more investigating next time I'm with the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 12:48 am:

Yes, the spokes are wood. I did a lot of sanding.






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