Best way to remove and replace glass for E&J 1908 sidelamp

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Best way to remove and replace glass for E&J 1908 sidelamp
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill on Wednesday, September 26, 2012 - 04:47 pm:

What's the procedure to replace glass on an E&J brass 1908 front side lamp for a 1911? I have a few that needs the glass replaced. Some are the square front and others that need the beveled, clear, round side glass replaced. I am worried about how thin the brass frame is on the front; in addition the round side slot looks difficult at best because of the round raised rib of the frame. I just don't want to screw these up. The condition of the lamp shells overall are very good. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 10:59 am:

I'm going to bump this because I'd like to know too. It seems like I've seen complete reproduction doors for the E&Js, ready to solder in place. I don't remember were I seen them. I'd also like to know how to replace the glass in an original door frame, if anyone has ever successfully done that. Pictures showing the steps would be really nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 11:15 am:

Do a Forum search for Craig Erickson; he was on here recently. They make terrific repro E&J Pat 1908 lamps, and may do the job for you. They sold me a rear lamp door with glass that fit perfectly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 01:42 pm:

Does anyone have a contact for a place to buy the correct glass parts that are beveled, just got some in the mail that are the right size but not beveled, guess i should have asked. Any forum members that may have any old is ok. :^)
Ricks Thank you for the info, always faithful!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Schwab on Thursday, September 27, 2012 - 03:04 pm:

Most stained glass shops have the equipment to bevel glass. I've had speedometer glass made there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:36 am:

I was just searching the net for lamp parts and across a very interesting site I had never seen before. It’s a business called “Classic Autopart Repro. Service,” in Sebastopol, CA, USA.

http://www.brassauto.com/cars8.html

They claim that they can make any part that is cast, machined, rolled, or spun. Apparently they have in stock or can manufacture parts for any brass lamp.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 12:26 pm:

It would be nice if some one would publish a "how to" book on restoring lamps and horns. It seems like that information is a trade secret.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 11:11 pm:

I would like to learn to do some basic things, such as taking a lamp apart and soldering it back together again. I have quite a few lamps that I would like to work on, but I'm afraid to attempt it. It would be great if someone could could make a video or post step-by-step photos of how to restore a brass lamp. I don't need to do any metal spinning or parts fabrication. I would just like to know how to replace damaged doors, remove small dents, replace glass lenses, polish, etc.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 05:14 am:

John T
Rick J
To replace the square glass , I cut the top section, take that off and after putting in the new glass solder it in place.
Toon
1104R
1105R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Anthonie Boer on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 05:19 am:

Here the pictures I hope
1104R
1105R


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John T. Tannehill on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 10:39 am:

Good feedback and advice, How about the round glass on the side? Keep it coming? I'm like the others though that wants to know how to take dents out replace glass, replace panels and putting it back together. Replacing the chimney or top cap. I know there are members that must have the experience, please share. Thank you


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 10:00 pm:

Okay, here goes.
I will share how I do brass sidelites and some of my techniques work for all lamps (round ones).
Some of the ways I do things may make some folks cringe. I generally use a propane torch with the smallest burner I can get. I remove each panel (there are 3, front and side (glass) and solid back usually with glass jewel).
First I soak a paper towel and cover the glass completely. Then I play the flame back and forth on each edge until the solder bubbles and I can slip a small screwdriver between the panel and the lamp. I work around the four sides. After the panel is lifted off and solder is cleaned up, a replacement panel can be used or new glass can be inserted in the frame. If the back panel is damaged the dents can be pushed out or panel replaced. I don't hammer brass, I have made many different forms with large dowels and use those. I anneal the brass before working it by heating to a dull red and letting it cool.
Using the above method to remove panels, a left lamp can be made into a right WITH THE CORRECT DOOR. Some lamps have right and left doors. With all panels removed the inner reflector can be removed for either plating or to repair/replace the bracket. (These are generally riveted).
To reinstall panels, I make sure that the mating surfaces are perfectly clean, apply some soldering flux to each surface and with the wet paper towels feed solder into the joint after heating. I then clean excess solder and buff.
I use 320/360/400 wet or dry sand paper (used dry) on my brass, usually wrapped around a stick such as a paint stirring stick. Files or coarse paper make deep scratches.
On round brass lamps such as tail lamps I remove the reflector with the torch, anneal dents and push them out from the inside, and rubbing with a smooth hammer head on the outside to level the metal. When light sanding shows a smooth surface, I buff. This takes a lot of patience and practice; some dents can take me hours as I remove a dent to my satisfaction.
I suppose I could go on, but these are some basics that I use. I have done hundreds of brass lamps (and black and brass) with, I think, excellent results. Practice with a junk light that you don't care about. I haven't broken a piece of glass yet.
I will not do lamps for others. I am too old to start a business, and I have seen some that do get overwhelmed. Karen and I will be at Hershey space OAF 50, usually in the mornings. I have some coupe and centerdoor window lifts for sale. (A little commercial at the end). Hope this helps somebody. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 02:40 pm:

I'll bring this back to the top. I added comments at the end of the thread. I wanted to make sure that anyone interested saw them. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 05:20 pm:

Dave,
Thank you very much for sharing. I have a few follow-up questions about your process. I have done some welding and brazing in the past, but I don’t have any hands on experience with soldering.
1) How do you clean off excess solder?
2) I’d like to know more about the forms made with large dowels. Do you have any photos of those?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Simmering on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 05:36 pm:

1) When removing excess solder, play some heat on it and wipe it off with fine steel wool. When I don't want heat, I carefully scrape it off with a pocket knife taking care not to scratch the brass. 360 paper will remove the remainder. Solder: I use lead solder that is about 3/16 thick. I don't know if you can buy it any more - maybe for electronics.

2) Working brass: I purposefully made that vague. The point is that you don't want to gouge the soft brass. A rounded 3/4 inch birch dowel works better than a screwdriver. Rounded steel works also. Those dents are mostly on backs of headlights, round doors, and rounded brass lamps used on other than T cars. You have to be inventive. I made a disc that fits snugly in a brass headlight door. This prevents snagging on the buffer. That can be exciting. Speaking of buffers, I used a washing machine motor with an arbor for 30 years. Now I have a big double shaft buffer. Both only go 1725 rpm; I find that to be fast enough.

Like anything else, practice makes experience. Hope this helps. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By william louis rosenthal on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 08:53 am:

Much preferred is to keep solder off the areas where it does not belong. Two preparations that are effective are a)mask off where solder will be applied so that flux is also not applied there. After flux application, wipe a thin film of dish washing soap or furniture polish on these non-soldered areas, and solder will not take. b) Craft shops that sell stained glass supplies sell an adhesive backed copper tape. Mask with the copper tape, wipe thin flux on the tape, and the tape will collect any solder overage that comes near it. Do your clean up and buffing with the tape still in place, then remove the tape.
Regards,
Scott


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