What is this and is it broke

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: What is this and is it broke
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 09:50 pm:

was getting ready to install the bands and new liners and found this, is it suposse to be loose or is something missing ,thinking it is the mag post contact if it is broken what can i do to fix it thanks guysbrass cap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

It should be sitting atop of a wedge shaped piece of insulation.

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:08 pm:

Rebuilt coil ring showing the fiber wedge insulator pad the magneto solder contact should rest on. That coil ring in your T shows lots of worn wrapping on the coils, and is questionable on how much longer it will last before shorting out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:23 pm:

Might want to drill out those holes in the block before you put the hog head on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:25 pm:

Looks like that '27 engine has bolts broken off in the holes. Those ought to come out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:27 pm:

Ronnie - Not what you were hoping to hear I'm sure, but you're due for a rebuilt mag ring. Compare the appearance of yours with the one in Dan's picture. While you have things apart, this is the time to get a rebuilt one.

The two sources most often recommended here on the Forum are Wally Szumowski and R.V. Anderson. Both do a great job of rebuilding the mag rings and the cost is about the same for either. Wally is in Chicago, RV is in upstate NY.

modeltnews@att.net ph 773-586-4485

rvmodelt@netsync.net ph 716-267-3526


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Friday, September 28, 2012 - 10:51 pm:

Ronnie, I have an RV mag and it is the bees knees! In order to drop in a new mag you need to pull out the engine and remove the transmission. Good idea to go through everything and inspect, reset the bearings, check/replace rings, check trans and triple gears, inspect the clutch... maybe go to a modern unit... on and on.

On the other hand you probably haven't been using the mag since it probably was dead anyway... if you want to just run for a while you want to stop that piece of copper from getting grabbed by a magnet (I've had that happen and it means all of the above plus scraping the rod and main bearings or repouring them... big bad thing to happen... it does make the inside of the engine look like a linguini dinner!). So if you just want to put it together to finish out the season you can make up a new wedge out of epoxy putty by first cleaning the area as much as you can and expose that rivet. Then mix up the epoxy and carefully pack it in to where the wedge used to be. Next push the mag post contact in place and carefully shape the putty so that it clears the flywheel magnets. Let it set and you are good to go for until you can do the complete tear down.

Next problem... do you know you have a 4 dip pan? It is not as strong or stiff as a 3 dipper. That is why those two bolt holes are there. You really need to remove the bolt remnants (pack rags over the transmission and center punch and drill the bolts. Then get a big ole' easy-out and get them out. Don't forget to chase the threads with a bottom tap.

As an aside here, you don't want your drill to go out the bottom of the bolts and into the block. An extra water drain hole at the rear of the engine is not very useful! Now when you re-assemble the engine and hogshead you need new bolts for those holes. They both get heavy straps which run down to the engine mounts. This stiffens the rear of the engine... the trans cover is tightened up to the block and the engine held firmer to the frame... nice. BUT (and this is a big BUT) you don't want to throw the 4th main out of line...

You need to talk to folks about the 4th main, maybe visit the Tulsa Model T club website. With the 4th out of line you risk breaking a crankshaft (one step worse than the linguini thing). If you don't have those bolts in there your 4th can't possibly stay in line in normal driving... so don't be surprised if you break your crank before the end of the season.

recap: You may break a crank without those bolts, if you add the bolts (I also add crankcase stiffners) and the straps you may not get the 4th in line and you may break a crankshaft. So, of course, the best thing is to stop now and pull the engine out so you can get it in alignment. Might as well deal with the mag then.

Great time to make sure you have removed any Kevlar you can find in there and get some good cotton or wood band liners... you'll be good to go (IMHO).

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 12:15 am:

Ron, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you've got enough wrong with that motor and trans to warrant pulling the motor. I'd be willing to bet if you looked over by where your bendix comes off the starter shaft the insulation on the outside of the coil is broken because of some genius trying to remove the starter without pulling the bendix cover and bendix off first. I know you looked at the rods when you pulled that oil pan off but as you know it can be hard to judge the clearance between the babbit and the crank journals. Once again I can't tell you how great the books from the MTFCA are for performing these repairs. They're less than around $15.00 and are just full of information. And the Ford service manual is another one only it's more specific in it's descriptions and a great resource.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 12:20 am:

I should add, and I'm not trying to get to personal but your starter ring gear is ugly. I've seen some ugly things in my life (i.e. my first wife) but that ring gear is looking rough. And didn't you say you had a low drum broken. Geez Ronnie I don't see how you've got much choice but to take er down.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 02:37 am:

Ronnie,
Assuming you tear it down I would suggest you save that mag and get a new one. Of course you can rebuild this one yourself or have someone else do it. I keep one just like yours around for when I tear my engine down. I lay the mag onto my flywheel magnets and flash it 3-4 times with my DC welder. Makes really pretty sparks. I turn it 2 magnet poles and do it again, turn and repeat... etc. You end up with a really strong mag.

The first time I put it onto the magnets I can lift it off with my fingers to reposition. After the first flash I have to use a pry bar to get it off. It doesn't matter that the mag post contact is wonky, it will do just fine as a magnet magnetizer.

I will get grief aimed at me if I don't mention that you have to check all magnets for cracks or breaks. This check is best done by pulling the magnets off. Since I did that about 15 years ago, the welder recharge is just peachy IMHO.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 02:38 am:

i glued a piece of wood there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 07:52 am:

ok looks like it comes out,as i said earlier being an old x drag racer i like things right my old altered would go 160-165 in 1/4 so it had to be right,,thanks been a while since i've be into an engine and trans but sure it is gonna be a fun time over winter


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 09:19 am:

well some good news the bolts are not broken just missing what size are they?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 10:31 am:

The trans cover to block bolts are 7/16" x 14 thr, 1" long. Occasionally shims are placed at the block bosses, prior to placing the bolts, when you align the hogshead with the 4th main at the ball cap.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John McGinnis in San Jose area, CA. on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 07:37 pm:

What about the two straps to the frame?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 08:54 pm:

Yep, forgot about those straps, needed for the support of the motor to the engine pan ears!

This pair are red to go fast. :-)




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Saturday, September 29, 2012 - 09:36 pm:

We'll Ronnie, you and I are in the same boat. I just recently found out I needed a new coil. If there is any advice to give it would be to do what these boys suggest. Im with you though, its gonna be a fun winter to work on the old girls. Have fun


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 01:07 am:

Brandon and Ronnie, this is going to be interesting. I'm thinking of tearing down my '26 tudor too. I'll probably start on it somewhere around November 1st. I just bought a Corvette and lost half my shop space to it. So the sedan is going to be in the shop, the touring's going to be in the shed, the Vettes going to be in the shop and the F150's going to be in the driveway. So this Tuesday I'm going to sign the mustang convertible over to my son because I want him to start paying his own insurance and the trailer's going in the back yard. Whew!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 01:19 am:

SIR, you have some space issues! I think its time you built a drive in bunker. In the event of a meltdown, we the human race need to keep the T's rolling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 01:42 am:

Brandon, the biggest problem is that I live in a mobile home park. That's right real trailer trash. I have a 28X68 double wide and a huge lot. The house is mine and the lot belongs to the park. So yep space is a problem. As it turns out though I've got an outside corner lot and it's huge. I've got Pine woods to the east, an open lot to the south they can't put another house in because mine is actually encroaching on it. To the West of course is the street and the entire row on that side of the street is empty and undeveloped and to the North is a County road so my yard and the right of way are between me and the road. The lot rent is cheap, the neighbors are elderly, water and sewer are free and they plow the snow in the winter. But I'm only allowed two cars outside at any one time. Everything else has to be hidden. After 33 years of marriage and collecting things my wife and I called it quits last year and she kept the farm and I got enough money to make a down payment on this, My tools and my truck. She kind of got the gold mine and I guess I got the shaft. But I'm not complaining. She's a great person and takes care of the place better than I ever would have.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Sunday, September 30, 2012 - 11:30 am:

Does the ring gear appear to be on wrong side out?

Those edges do not appear to have the normal slight taper.


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