Help Me Identify this T Coupe?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Help Me Identify this T Coupe?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rowland Smith on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 08:37 pm:

I'm a car guy, but brand new T owner. Can you help me identify this car? I think it's a 24 or 25 car, but the engine seems to be '21 (ser#4852506)...it has a starter, electric lights, battery, electric lights and tail light.

I'd like to know the year so I can restore the exterior to correct...will probably keep the engine as it's running good.

I am getting demountable wheels also as they seemed to go with the starter/battery upgrade package.

thanks for any help, suggestions, info!




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 08:59 pm:

I think it would be a 1926/7 if the fuel tank is up under the cowl.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rowland Smith on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:04 pm:

fuel tank is under seat


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:10 pm:

Look at the coupe pictures on entering the web site. I believe it is a 24-25 based on the rear trunk contour and the high hood. The interior likely has a a fair amount of wood in the doors and body, compared to mostly metal in the 26-27's. It's a pretty car. There is a similar one 35 miles from me I may try to acquire in the future if the grandkids don't want it. Dad doesn't want it and the owner (a dear friend and patient) passed several years ago.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:12 pm:

Hello, Rowland, and welcome. Yes, you have a 1924-5 Coupe. (Kerry, I think the opening in the cowl is a vent.) It's not unusual for Model T's to have different engines than the ones which originally came in them.

I believe you're right, that a '24-5 "electric" car would have come with demountable rim wheels, and no cowl lamps. Someone apparently has installed the door handles 90 degrees from how they were originally, but that's easy to change.

It's a nice-looking T, and I'm sure you'll have many miles of great fun in it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rowland Smith on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:21 pm:

thanks for the info Mike....btw, originally a Little Rock native:-).....

could you suggest a "restore guide" that might have pics and info to help me put things in the right places? or maybe there are some online writeups on restoring?

I also wondered if most T's of this year had spare tires on the rear or did some not?

thanks again


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willie K Cordes on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:23 pm:

It looks like a 24/25 coupe. Door handles were mounted in a horizontal direction not vertical.
I have 26/27 wire wheels on my coupe, may not be correct, but it looks good and those loose spoke problems with wood spoke are not there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

You're right about the serial number: Thursday, April 14, 1921. It was one of the last engines made that day. The car is 1924-1925 if it has the high radiator that was new for 1924. 1924 was also the first year for the apron under the radiator, though a lot of cars have lost theirs.

1924: STEERING COLUMN ASSEMBLY: Pressed steel, black painted, quadrant, Zinc-plated spark and throttle levers, with flattened metal ends. Gear case was brass but zinc plated, one piece assembly. Wheel was 16” outside diameter, made of “Fordite” (synthetic material), and painted black. The wheel spider is pressed steel and painted black. Horn button
was on left side of the column.

1925:STEERING COLUMN ASSEMBLY: Pressed steel, black painted, quadrant, Nickel-plated spark and throttle levers, with flattened metal ends. Gear case was brass, nickel plated, one piece assembly. Wheel was 16’’ outside diameter, made of “Fordite” (synthetic material), and painted black. The wheel spider was pressed steel and painted black. With introduction of balloon tires, the gear ratio was increased to 5:1. The steering wheel diameter was increased to 17” in January 1925.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:44 pm:

Rowland -- Little Rock is a good place to be FROM. :-)

The best restoration guide is Bruce McCalley's book, "Model T Ford, The Car That Changed the World." It is now out of print and getting more and more pricey all the time. Expect to pay about $100 if you can find one. Bruce compiled an expanded CD version of the book before his recent death, and that is available for about $50 from his widow (Barbara?). That has been advertised here on the Forum and in the Classified ads, and in the MTFCA's Vintage Ford magazine.

A good (free) alternative is the online Encyclopedia, on this site: http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/index.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 09:47 pm:

I forgot to post this. It's for all new T owners. The information I posted above is from the Encyclopedia.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Sosnoski on Tuesday, October 02, 2012 - 10:10 pm:

It's either a 24 or a 25 - can't tell from the photos. Generally, if the doors are wood framed it's a 24. If they are all steel it's a 25.

The wheels should be 30x3-1/2 demountable for 24 or 25. In 25 they also came out with the 21" balloon tires.

Door handles do not look like Model T handles.

Something is seriously wrong with the front of the roof where it overhangs the windshield. It should only overhang about 3" and there should be a visor mounted under the overhang.

Need more detailed photos to tell more.

Dave S.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 02:26 am:

The paint looks a lot nicer than my '24 coupe.
I don't need to say much more, David S is the '24/'25 Coupe expert and said everything I would have added.
Except, also, welcome to the affliction! If you develop a serious case of the illness, you will wind up with a couple of model Ts, or more, and prefer driving them over almost anything else.
Nice car, by the way.



Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 10:17 am:

Maybe Rowland's car has an aftermarket visor? I expect something like that would have been available "back in the day."


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 02:55 pm:

Going by the picture the roof overhang isnt correct, wrong wheel color and the door handles look to be in the wrong position are the most noticeable. It probably has a earlier engine going by the engine no.
Its your T and it looks fine to me BUT to a purist the above would need to be changed.
There are a lot of T's that have minor incorrect things on or done to them.
A lot of the black era T's (17-25) are painted other colors than black. It can go on and on.
Have fun and welcome to the world of Model T's!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 03, 2012 - 11:15 pm:

Lots of details are incorrect on many Ts. The spokes on my wheels are supposed to be black. But they were like this when I got the car, and I have too many projects to worry about that detail. So even though I would prefer them to be black, they will stay natural. At least for a while.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rowland Smith on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 10:42 pm:

Thanks everyone!!

I did notice the overhang...the previous owner had the roof done and the overhang is done also, like it's one piece. I'm wondering if the visor was upolstered with it? But it's in nice condition so it's low on the priority list.

Steve: the horn button is on the left side of the steering column, BUT I confirmed with another 24/25 guy that the patent badge on the "steel" firewall has 2 rivets not 4...supposadly being a 25?

In addition, it seems my front fenders don't confirm a '25 either, knowing they could have also been changed. They bend down as they approach the apron.

I've decided to go with the engine, as it's running well. Rebuilding the "G" carb this week and ordered a high raditator to be correct. Ordered steel felloe wheels and got some used demountables to sandblast and paint. I think I'll do the spokes natural.

I've posted a pic of the front fenders and engine to see if you guys have other thoughts. I'd like to do it as a correct 24 or 25 if I can figure it out, but maybe with available upgrades from the time period.

thanks






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 11:26 pm:

Looks very similar to my 1924 coupe, with the comments listed above regarding the door handles and wheels. I too changed the wheels to 21" wheels, as that's what I had in good condition when I restore the car in the 1970's. Mine looks identical to Wayne's.
Mine is odd as it has aluminium doors with wood frames. Bruce told me the Al doors only came on the Fordor so either the doors are identical or Bruce was wrong (never!).


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 06:44 am:

Rowland,

I would highly recommend Bruce McCalley's (RIP) "Model T Comprehensive Encyclopedia" which is available from Barbara. Just go to the For sale / swap site on our MTFCA at: http://mtfca.com/showit1/index.html and search on McCalley. They are $50 plus $5.15 shipping and the date on the posting is Tue Sep 4 18:58:16 2012 . If you don't find it -- drop me an e-mail (click on my name and my e-mail is the third line down) and I will send it to you. I don't want to post someone's contact information without their permission. The CD is actually better in my opinion than his book, because he was able to continue to update the information. Also you can zoom in on details etc. The on line encyclopedia is good -- but it is a reader's digest version of the CD. CD also has numerous photos many in color that were published in black in white in his book. There are also many additional photos etc.

Nice looking T! Note the two rivets style ID Patent plate is clearly a late 1925 item. However -- it actually only positively dates the firewall as the firewall is easily removed. Without some sort of history on the car - it is one more clue you can use to better establish a logical date. Bruce's CD will give you the additional photos and information to help you figure out the date range for many of the parts on your car.

For Steve Jeff -- I'm 80% sure well that has since dropped to 60% sure as I've looked and can't find the info -- that I read that Ford marked the 1925 steering gear case with a 5 or something to indicate when it contained the 5:1 steering gears. And that initially on the 1925s (introduced in 1924) the cars with the clincher tires continued to use the 4:1 steering ratio. Once all the cars were fitted with the 5:1 the case was no longer marked. I just looked and I did not find that note -- so it is possible I "imagined it" but if someone knows for sure one way or the other -- please let us (or at least me) know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 07:03 am:

I just checked the Service Bulletins and the May 1925 bulletin stated, "Steering gears of 5 to 1 ratio which were originally installed only in cars equipped with balloon tires, are now being used in all cars regardless of their tire equipment." But I did not see anything mentioning that the earlier gear case fitted with the 5:1 was marked with a “5.” If anyone has a lead on where that might be written (or if it is just my imagination) please let us know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 10:07 am:

Hap, I'm in the same boat. I think I remember it being marked, but I can't cite a source.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rowland Smith on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 10:11 am:

Thanks Hap:
I'll check to see if I can find a "5" just in case. I've ordered a couple of books to help with I.D. I'll look at this one also.

As an addition, the doors on this coupe are all metal, no wood....pushing one more step towards '25 being correct.


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