Lots of dumb questions. '23 Roadster pickup

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Lots of dumb questions. '23 Roadster pickup
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 11:52 am:

Just acquired a '23 (I think) T Model. No history, mostly restored. My first T and not sure what I have. All help appreciated.
What is original colour for motor? Is aftermarket oil line to front of motor necessary? Do they have an air cleaner as standard?
What oil do you use? Ok to use coolant?
Lots more questions to come, thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Robison on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 12:16 pm:

Engine color: black or not painted no clear answer, Outside oil line: not necessary but recommended Air Cleaner: not std. but a good idea Oil: 10w30 Coolant: 50/50 antifreeze and water


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Horlick in Penn Valley, CA on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

Oil line: There is a line inside the engine. If it is clear and you do not go up hills then you do not need an accessory line.

There are several kinds of accessory oil lines. If you have one on your car then I recommend disconnecting it from the front and put that end into a bottle. When you run the engine you should get good flow into the bottle. Most accessory lines, especially mag post lines, do little more than look impressive. So an oil line which does not flow is not needed.

If you plan on doing lots of steep hills and don't like replacing bearings then a good flowing oil line is a good idea.

Lots of information on this subject has been posted and archived.

TH


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gavin Harris (Napier, NZ) on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 03:34 pm:

In the book "Ford Methods and the Ford Shops" p124 there is a photo (not very clear) with the caption "Operation 84- Paint the motor and remove it from the Assembly Line to a small wooden stand on rollers".

My book is a 2005 reproduction of a book published in 1919. The photos are not very clear,I don't know if the original book was any clearer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 08:28 pm:

Russell, here are a couple of links for all new Model T owners:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Thursday, October 04, 2012 - 09:11 pm:

Russell,

1. Welcome aboard! Since you are living in Australia, I would assume your T is probably a Canadian chassis with an Australian body. Most of the Model Ts imported to Australia around 1917 and later were imported to Australia as a chassis (or chassis parts) and then fitted with a local body (closed cars were an exception to that). Most of the Model T parts and sub-assemblies such as front axle, rear axle, fenders, running boards, engine and transmissions, bodies etc. could easily be interchanged. Because of that it is very common for unrestored cars to have parts from many different years. And unless the person who restored the car went to the trouble to acquire the same year range parts – many of the restored cars also have parts from several different year ranges. It doesn’t impact the fun of driving them – but it can make it a little confusing when you order a part for your 1923 and find out it doesn’t fit quite right.

2. Many cars are dated by the current title which often was based off the engine serial number. But many of the engines were swapped out over the years. At one time you could obtain a used running engine (an entire car for that matter) for almost nothing here in the USA. I suspect that may have been the case in other locations also. I would suggest posting some photos of the car along. You can check the Canadian engine serial numbers from the listing below – but remember that is the approximate month the engine was assembled and not necessarily the month when the engine was placed in a chassis.





3. Some safety items (a Model T does NOT meet current OSHA standards) copied from one of my previous postings:
.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/13483.html

3.a. Be sure to ask and have the previous owner let you know if the rear axle babbitt thrust bearings/washers were replaced and if so with what were they replaced? That can cause the rear axle to longer work properly which means the car is not powered by the engine and the normal transmission brake no longer works (not good). See the thread titles Windshield glass help and hello! at:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/295678.html?1339633408 and it quickly turns into good information about failed babbitt thrust bearings/washers. Example of loss of brakes caused by drive shaft failure: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/47804.html -- note anything that causes the drive line to fail will also cause the main service brake to fail.

3.b. Safety Glass is nice: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/72116.html

3.c. Use safety wire and not lock washers or cotter pins on the two studs holding the wishbone to the underside of the engine – the lock washers can prevent the nuts from backing of the studs but the studs have been known to back out and it causes the front end to become lose initially and if not corrected it gets worse and worse and can cause an accident. Types of safety wire: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/41859.html pick one to use if you need it.

3.d. Lots of safety items http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50893/69429.html

3.e. Over center steering – shouldn’t happen on later Ts – but if someone replaced items with the wrong parts etc it can happen see: Different length drag links and steering going over center – By Royce
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/300409.html also: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/86345.html

3.f. Top T tips – many of them are safety related also: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/85208.html

3.g. Tour safety check list: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/44331.html

3.h. And if you have a gas hot water heater in the garage – be very very careful. The float in a Model T Carb will sometimes stick (or trash in the valve) and the carb will leak gasoline. Not too bad if there are no sparks – several homes, garages and cars have been lost when a gas hot water heater was near by and someone started the dishwasher other item that caused it to turn on the burner at the wrong time. Note gas fumes tend to be heavier than regular air …. so they tend to hug the floor. If you adjust your garage door to let the mice in and the air out – that is a temp work around. But replacing the gas fired hot water heater with an electric heater or having the gas one relocated away from the garage is the best thing.

3.i. Do NOT back up quickly – the T is very unstable backing up. One of those safety threads above gives an example of that. But it is similar to backing up the grocery cart. The front wheels on the cart have a caster and when you back up the spin around. Except in the case of the T they can only go hard over left or hard over right as you back up. That can give you a really really tight turn – but normally that is not what you are looking for. You mentioned this is your fist T. With the T not running grab one of the front tires about halfway up from the ground (level with the hub cap) and pull on it. See how easy the front wheel can be turned by a small force? Now go to any car made after 1928 and pull on the front wheel. If you find one that turns that easily – please let me know and I change the directions to any Ford produced after 1928. The T has squirrely steering compared to more modern cars. When properly maintained it is safe – but it is not for high speeds and not forgiving when adjusted improperly.

3.j. Your T will serve you well but if you mishandle it, it can bite you. With a little precaution (not years of but a little time learning about your car and checking to make sure it and you are both up to speed) you can have years of enjoyment.

Again, welcome aboard!

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 07:49 am:

Wow, President of the Western Australian Model T club suggested I contact this site. Thankyou all, very informative.
Yes it is a Canadian one. Came originally from a deceased estate which is why there is no information.
Appears to have had a lot of restoration. Looks like he never finished the back end. (Brakes missing one side, covered in oil on the other, bearings fell to bits when removed)
Radiator is a bit "how's your father?" Steering is a bit loose, exhaust needs work.
On the upside it looks like the motor and box have done little if any work. All woodwork and upholstery have been done. Body is in good condition though it could probably do with a paint job
I swapped it for a couple of cars that owed me very little.
I have ordered parts from langs and am waiting for a workshop manual to arrive.
I tried to attach a photo but it won't let me.
Another couple of questions. What does the term "Babbit" mean? It is not one I have heard of here. Is it the same as peening?
How hard is it to remove the top cover of the box and swap pedals?
(I have a spare that is tapped and drilled for the oil line but pedals on one fitted to car are in better condition. Trying to work out if it is easier to swap tops and pedals or remove top and drill and tap etc)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:55 am:

Babbitt is the material used for bearings in Model T engines and others. Its most notorious use was in rear axle thrust washers, which deteriorate and should be replaced with bronze.

Peening refers to mashing the end of a bolt to keep the nut from working loose.

Here are some pictures of putting new babbitt in a Model T block.


Pouring babbitt into the mold.


Fresh babbitt with the mold removed.


Boring the new bearings to the proper size.

I'll let somebody with more experience comment on the pedal question.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:52 pm:

Thank you Steve. Great pics. I have a lot to learn about these cars. I have only had it for 3 weeks.
How do you upload the photo's? I am using the ipad and the site tells me the photo exceeds the limit? Yes, I am a technical dinosaur so the T Model and I should get along fine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Russell Prideaux on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 12:02 am:

Is there a simple way of knowing if the bushes in the diff have been done or does the diff have to come apart?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 12:23 am:

The official rule for pictures is that they have to be 200 KB or less. In actual practice, it should be 194 KB or less. On a Mac: 1 Make a copy of the picture you want to resize; 2 Open the copy; 3 Click on TOOLS at the top of the screen; 4 Lower the Horizontal or Vertical size number in the little box (either will do) until the Resulting Size shows 194 KB or less; 5 Click SAVE. The file info may show a higher number like 238 or 242. That doesn't matter. As long as the Resulting Size showed 194 or less when you clicked SAVE, it will work. I haven't used an iPad, so I don't know if it's the same.

If there's a way to see the thrust washers without opening up the rear axle, I haven't heard of it. Maybe one of those little scopes surgeons use to look inside small spaces?


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