Ts with original engines

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Ts with original engines
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 08:15 am:

I've been wanting to ask this for quite some time. How many of you all have Ts that have their original engines? I know a lot of Ts have gone through engine swaps sometime during their lives. Of course, I know it can be hard to tell sometimes, especially if the engine was swapped for one of the same year!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kerry van Ekeren (Australia) on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 08:19 am:

My 16 has, same engine # and body ID plate #.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 08:26 am:

My '26 coupe, manufactured in March 1926, has the original engine. The engine number and the chassis number match. Same for my '26 Fordor, manufactured in Feb. 1926. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:11 am:

The March of '15 Touring Car I had for 10 years and sold a year ago has its original engine. It sold new here in Fayetteville and has stayed around the area all its life. (Except when I drove it to Richmond for the Centennial.) :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gordon Byers - Rangely CO on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:17 am:

My '27 pickup has matching engine and chassis numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:28 am:

My 27 Coupe has matching numbers. Purchased from the 2nd owner who bought it in 1957.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:32 am:

The only ones you can be sure about are the cars like Mike's that have a known history. Matching numbers suggest an original engine, but don't prove it. There were unnumbered replacement blocks stamped with the original number when installed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:47 am:

Steve, you are exactly right, but it's always nice to see one that you know for sure.

I believe my '24 Touring has its original engine, but I can't prove it. The body style is certainly right for a '24. The engine number puts it somewhere around Nov. 22, 1923, which means it would be right for the '24 model year. But again, the engine could still have been swapped.

But still, it's nice to think it is the original one!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mahlon hawker on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:52 am:

My 27 C-cab TT has matching engine and chassis numbers. The engine was rebuilt once in the late 40's and is still in superb shape. The farmer really took care of his equipment.

Tony


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By jeff cordes on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 10:12 am:

I have a stamp set so all mine match as well, lol


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 10:30 am:

'23 Touring. April of that year for the eng #. Steel firewall. The #'s match the title and are period correct. Is it orig ? Don't know. Close enough.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 10:43 am:

I suppose it is hearsay, but the guy I bought my T from told me what he knew of its history. I am the fourth owner (the fifth, technically, but he put it in his daughter's name when he went through a bankruptcy, so the car pretty much remained his). The third owner (the guy I bought it from) lived in Waverly IL, had it for about 30 years, drove it once a year in the Waverly parade and would take his kids into town for an ice cream from time to time. Farthest he said he ever drove it was to Jacksonville once (25 miles each way). Second owner bought it as a novelty, garaged it for five years and never drove it (which is why he decided to sell it). First owner was a woman in Girard IL. What he told me about her was, "Heck, that ol' gal probably only ever drove it into town for groceries once or twice a week." I can't imagine that it had anything but the original engine when I bought it, since it was clearly a low-mileage car. Had an original Ford timer on it, and Ford script rings. Didn't appear to have a lot of wear and tear, so the story about its past is very believable. I think that Anja and I have put more miles on it in 16 years than all the previous owners combined, but I suspect it is still under 100,000. I'd be really surprised if anyone had ever felt a need to replace the engine


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 10:46 am:

I don't think it's possible to tell whether the engine is original unless the car has been in the family since it was new and all records of previous repairs have been preserved. Perhaps, some barn finds, if it were known when the car was parked and what had been done beforehand.

Many engines have been swapped either with one of the same year, or the number was re-stamped.

Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 10:59 am:

Have to agree, Charlie...close enough..grin.

And a fun conversation piece.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Darel J. Leipold on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:01 am:

I have owned my 1910 since 1946. The company I bought it from bought it in 1931. I have the build sheet for it from the Benson Research. It is the original engine, an open valve with original pan and trans cover.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:05 am:

Mine has been rebuilt but the VIN and casting date on block are within the proper range so I would say yes to being the original for the chassis, now the body that is a different story.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dexter Doucet on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:15 am:

I've got a 15 runabout with its original engine. Casting date of 12/10/14 and the number on the body tag is the same.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David A. Siver on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:18 am:

I am the 3rd owner of my '19 TT fire truck and it has the original engine and drive train.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:45 am:

My family is the second owner of our 19 T.

We know that the engine has never been replaced or rebuilt because we know about its full history from the first owner and his family.
The carburetor is now a NH but we have the original Kingston.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Val Soupios on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 11:48 am:

My '10 and my '27 have the original engines as the serial numbers on the body/frame match the engine number. I don't know about the other 5 T's I have but they do have engines that have serial numbers and casting dates that correspond to their year of manufacture. I don't know how you can be sure if they are originals however.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 12:36 pm:

My 1914 Runabout has the original running gear. Mfg. 12/16/1913. the only NOS are Coil box, top, inside panels, tires. I have those original parts.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Stewart -Calif. on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 12:39 pm:

P S.
I have the complete history for my car. Original owner 1914-1930, The man and his uncle, knew the original owner, I bought it from, 1930-2004, and I have had it from 2004.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 12:49 pm:

I have two with matching numbers and two without.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

I haven't compared the numbers stamped on the chassis with the numbers stamped on the engine, but I was thinking, if the engines were stamped at the same time as the chassis, it stands to reason that the stamping dies should be identical (same font size and style), which would make it almost a certainty that the engine was original to the car. If the engine was replaced and stamped several years later with the same number, I doubt that the number would be an identical match since number die punches came in many styles and sizes.

When were the numbers stamped on the chassis and the engine? before or after the engine was installed in the car? I would surmise that the stamping of the chassis and engine would be one of the last procedures performed on the assembly line, with the engine already installed in the car to avoid mistakes. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 01:06 pm:

'26 Canadian Touring (chain drive), frame and engine numbers match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Halpin on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 02:54 pm:

My 27 Tudor was a numbers matching car when I bought it but right now, it's got a modified T engine in it. The original one is 'pickled' in a crate, starter, generator, everything.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Patterson, OZ on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 03:41 pm:

Canadian built, Aussie bodied, "Anastasia", still has her original engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Mahoney on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

I know my late-14/early-15 has the orig engine - number matches the original registration tags I found under the front seat! No better proof than that!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 05:02 pm:

Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB

Very Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Booth@ Bay City, Mi on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 06:54 pm:

My '27 Fordor numbers match.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Wilson, Saint John NB, Canada on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 07:16 pm:

My 1927 Canadian T has the original engine with matching number on the frame. My dad purchased it in 1962 from the original owner who drove it until 1947 and then stored it in his woodshed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Hycner on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:35 pm:

Just bought my '26 in Missouri, it has the original block with numbers that match the frame. According to the second owner he bought it 6 years ago and pulled the motor to rebuilt but lost ambition. He was told the car was parked in '46. Amazing something this old does not have a single rot hole in it and everything comes apart easily.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dare - Just a little South West . on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:39 pm:

I'm pretty sure the engine in my 13 Touring is the original block, BUT when l pulled the head and found holes from water jacket right thru the exhaust ports l think that convinced me that is was, the block in it now is 3 days younger...lucky find..so it should last at least 3 days longer !!!
David.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Friday, October 05, 2012 - 09:40 pm:

JIm great tudor! I would like my next T to be a tudor or a touring...ok, who am I foolin' - or a fordor or a roadster...grin...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 08:36 am:

My 13 touring, 25 coupe and 24 touring have their original engines. The 24 has had a body change, from a 4dr, to the touring body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tim Voss on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 08:54 am:

My 27 has it original engine, but I just put it back in this year. The car has been in the family since the thirties. So I know it is the right engine.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 09:02 am:

My '26 tudor have matching frame, title, and engine numbers. My '22 touring has a '22 motor in it and according to the guy I bought it from it's the only motor that has ever been in it. He supposedly knows the history all the way back to new. So I feel confident my motors are original.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Lodge - St Louis MO on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 09:12 am:

Chris, do Canadian Ts come with snow as standard equipment? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 11:11 am:

Only when purchased between October and April.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 12:32 pm:

I believe my 1915 Touring has the original engine (the number on the engine coinciding with the fairly brief interval during which my particular model year Touring was being built). I do have a later model transmission (1924) to accommodate an electric starter.

My car is a driver, with various safety modifications (including an under-the-axle front wishbone and turn signals), so I don't worry too much about that stuff. It may be possible to operate a bone-stock brass car in some locales, but in my neck of the woods, traffic on the boulevards can get a little heavy and it requires an extra safety margin.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 04:03 pm:

My '26 Touring has a brass plate on the top floor board, near the choke pull, stamped with a number that would indicate an engine production date of late December 1925. I did not know about the other places for this number until I found this forum, and when I looked, the number on the block is the same.
When the car was actually built, I have no clue, as the engine apparently made a trip across the ocean to Copenhagen first. It would be interesting to know what parts were sourced locally, and which parts were shipped from the U. S. or England.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, October 06, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

Of the roughly a dozen Ts I have had, the only one that came with what may have been the original engine is the '24 coupe I now have. Most of my Ts came to me with no motor at all. Two came with engines that I know had been acquired by a previous owner.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 12:13 am:

My 1927 Canadian tudor has the original engine and transmission with matching numbers.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By JohnH on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 05:19 am:

Not only is mine original, but it had never been out of the car until late 2009 when the crankshaft broke. It was driving around quite happily with the original bore and babbit until then.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 10:45 am:

To add to the FWIW...

My 15 has a very short lineage of ownership and I see no reason for it to have ever been changed...

My 25 is as built and mighty tired...

My Hack is outfitted as a low hood '19 as far as running gear, yet the chassis and engine are '27 and # match, even though the title says '19 with some # I don't even know what it might have been...

The '26 Coupe is probably original, but no way to tell other than everything is correct for the period, and definately has not been changed in the last 40+ years...

There are extra engines laying around, and to add to the confusion, were I to find a chassis or two that was era correct I would not hesitate to build up a car correct for the engines...:-) but I'm the type that would leave a note buried somewhere on it to say it was done that way. The next owner can decide to be as honest...or not.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tony Bowker on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 11:47 pm:

My Town Car has the correct engine number for the year but I doubt it is the original engine shipped with the car. The same is true for the Speedster as it was made up from bits found along the way. The 1924 Coupe has a correct number for the year, May 1924, but it had a four dip pan, which doesn't seem correct. The 1914 Touring has an electric start 1922 numbered engine.
However my 1917 Touring was found by Bill Harrah in the desert near Reno apparently in the 1960's and pulled into his yard. It remained as a complete car until I purchased it in 1980, so unless the engine was changed before it ended up in the desert, it probably has the original motor for the chassis. The wood fell out when we were trailering it home, so I have no idea of any body number which may have been stamped in the wood. Naturally the engine number corresponds to a December 1917 number.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Eric Hylen- Central Minnesota on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 11:54 pm:

My '14 Touring is still using its original engine. The serial number matches the original bill of sale and titles that I got with the car.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 11:24 am:

Mine is a conundrum... I know the lineage of the car (it's been a complete car since it rolled off the line, not a composite), the motor is a late '15 (998K) but the body and all the other goodies are Mid-'15 (August)... either someone took the time early on to replace one '15 motor with another (maybe the original or 2nd owner??), or... the original motor went bad when new and was swapped out at the branch with a shelf motor (did Ford warranty their cars back then? Maybe replace it hush hush to keep their reputation intact?)... or who knows. Everything I've read says the 4 1/2 month disparity is too long to be a normal manufacturing delay.


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