Motometer Question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Motometer Question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Brown on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 02:59 pm:

I never see any red on my motometer when running. '24 Tudoor, newer radiator and water pump. If I remove it and stick the probe / bulb / dingfob in boiling water the red line will peg out. In the radiator the probe doesn't stick down far enough to contact the coolant due to the level set by the overflow tube. Is this normal? Do I need to raise the level of the overflow tube?
Can I get a straight answer here before the short dingfob jokesters start chipping in.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By bill harris on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 03:07 pm:

Mike: The bottom of the MotoMeter probe does not have to touch the water. The hot air/steam always seems to work on every antique we have had. Your car may just be running cool but I would think you should get a reading at least a third of the way up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Brown on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 03:27 pm:

Is adding thermostat a good idea? Anybody running one?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 03:52 pm:

Mike, it is working correctly. Do you have the timing advanced all the way when running? If I do, the red stays at the bottom unless I sit while running. Retard the timing a bit and you should see the red come up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 04:40 pm:

Mike, Regardless of your dingfob to water relationship, I can only tell you about my experience in your situation. I got a motometer and loved it. The dingfob never touched the water (still doesnt) but the temp read out fine (can the air temp inside the cap be much less than the coolant temp? no way). It always came up and varied as expected with the temp and running conditions. My old radiator gave out so I got a new Bergs radiator. The increased cooling capacity resulted in the red being so low, it is mostly invisible. I do not run a water pump, or my fan due to the increased cooling from the new radiator. I have had great results with thermobarf Ford cooling. Your setup seems to be working well. I do not need a thermistat but some would say it works with a waterpump. Some would say do not use either but I will stay out of that.

Now the only issue is the habit of my meter getting bubbles in the red stuff. I hate that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By HARRY A DAW on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 04:51 pm:

Erich, I have removed bubbles in the red stuff by getting a good hold of the motometer and hitting the tube that sticks in the radiator against an inflated tire several times. The liquid being heavier than the air will be forced to the base.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 04:56 pm:

Harry, I have tried that till I nearly wore a dent into the tire, spun it in a shop-made jig via the lathe, put it in the freezer, heated it up, nothing has been effective completely.


I fail to see how it can sit there riding around on the front of my car and suddenly one day it has a huge bubble in the column. Do I have garage gremlins?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

I've always run a thermostat, and waterpump. It's not good for an engine to run too cool. I don't use a fan anymore, and the only time I see anything in the motometer is when I'm running less than 5 mph for more than 5 minutes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 06:48 pm:

Dang it! And I was looking forward to the "short dingfob jokesters".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 06:58 pm:

Ken, how full should your radiator be? Just till your dingfob is about to get wet. Some radiators are more full than others.......


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 08:23 pm:

Trust me your radiator will seek its own level... They are all different as to how much coolant they will tolerate, long as the tubes are covered it should circulate just fine. Too much water / coolant they tend to puke any excess out via- the over flow tube thus finding its own level.
If your not getting a reading on your meter maybe a bad meter? Or you have a really cool running T.
Get'n your dingfob wet is a good thing..... Right?
A short dingfob may be harder to get wet.... {;~)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Sunday, October 07, 2012 - 10:58 pm:

Mike,
I think your problem would be solved by removing the water pump. Your new radiator should not need a pump to push water through it and if you have a water pump then a thermostat may be needed so the engine will warm up. The simple solution it to remove the water pump and it will work well as designed and as millions of T's have worked for many years. Keep it simple.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 08:22 am:

What Jim said. I was sorta hinting at it before.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alan George Long on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 08:32 am:

So you guys are saying that unlike modern temperature sender units that have to be immersed in water to send a signal to the gauge this type doesn't?? I have recently purchased a motor meter (mainly for the appearance) and did wonder how it operated.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 09:11 am:

If you fill the radiator until it touches the moto meter it is too full and will simply push out coolant when it warms up until it is at the proper level.

The motometer is never supposed to touch the water / anti freeze mixture in the radiator. Be sure to use an appropriate mixture of anti - freeze to prevent corrosion in your radiator and block.

If you remove the water pump your car will never have a water pump failure. A thermostat is not needed, nor a water pump. Those things just make the car less reliable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 09:41 am:

I have never seen a T that will run for long and keep the water level high enough to immerse the motometer bulb.

The motometer works on the air temperature and/or steam above the water level in the radiator.

The fact that your motometer registers when put in boiling water means its working fine. Your car with the new radiator and water pump is just running VERY cool, maybe too cool.

I run a water pump too, but only because I HAVE to (old radiator with loose fins - the pump helps a little). When I can afford a new radiator I will ditch the pump.

Suggest you try it without the water pump. You might run a little warmer, but that's a good thing as long as there's no overheating.

Good luck
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 08:44 pm:

Bud ...
OT ... ARe you any relation to the Holzschuh's in the Petoskey, Michigan area?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Conklin on Monday, October 08, 2012 - 10:31 pm:

Running a coolant recovery bottle with a good gasket or "O" ring under the radiator cap will keep the coolant up to the bulb. This will also help with a marginal radiator since your not loosing the coolant.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 09:10 am:

Donald

Since the T has an unpressureized system...how can a coolant recovery system work ?

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 09:44 am:

A coolant recovery tank serve any purpose. The motometer was not designed to have its end submerged in liquid. It reads the temperature of the water vapor in the top of the radiator. Typically my T does not need much coolant added over the course of the year, perhaps a cup or two to account for evaporitive loss.

Every Model T came with and needs a radiator cap gasket. Otherwise you will get droplets of coolant on the windshield while driving. You can purchase one from any of the usual vendors.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 10:14 am:

I use a large O ring for the radcap gasket; from any hardware store.

A coolant recovery bottle not only saves expensive anti-freeze if the Thermobarfs, it may save a cat or dog that is attracted to the sweet scent and taste of ethylene glycol in anti-freeze.

Here's what I use instead of anti-freeze:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 10:20 am:

Ralph,

That stuff won't keep my coolant from freezing in cold weather. It is a poor substitute for the real thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 10:37 am:

I see red on my motometer all the time: that's because mine doesn't work!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Thode Chehalis Washington on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 10:56 am:

Ricks is correct, if you live in an area that you don't need the freeze protection there a good reason to use something else for corrosion control. Adding antifreeze to water reduces the ability of the coolant to transfer heat from the engine to the radiator.

The specific heat capacity of ethylene glycol based water solutions are less than the specific heat capacity of clean water. For a heat transfer system with ethylene glycol the circulated volume must be increased compared to a system with clean water. Oh Oh, you add antifreeze, then you have to add a water pump to get the same heat transfer as the originally designed T cooling system.

Jim


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jared Buckert on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 11:22 am:

I've heard it's best to run straight water during the summer months of the year and to put antifreeze in during the winter months. I've often wondered if there was something that would prevent corrosion but still keep the heat capacity of regular water. I think Rick's found it. Rick, have you noticed any difference in temperature when running the Anti Rust versus running straight water? I did a quick search and found one review on Amazon that says it lubricates water pumps, but doesn't talk about corrosion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 12:12 pm:

William sounds like you have a bad dingfob on your hands... Just saying...... Lol ! {;^()


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 12:56 pm:

I don't never run straight water, Jared, and the motometer shows nothing since the thermostat keeps the temperature in the head and block nice and even.

I've read that the anti-rust is just a water soluble oil, doing the jobs of rust reduction and waterpump lube. It's been years since I changed the coolant, and it's still white.

The anti-rust probably reduces heat transfer as much as ethylene glycol does. I think most T engines are run too cool too much of the time, anyhow.

Has anybody found a modern car since the almost forgotten DKW 3=6 that uses thermobarf?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 03:53 pm:

Any idea related to a modern car is irrelevant and a topic for some other forum Ralph.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 05:23 pm:

Did they change the laws of thermodynamics after the T stopped production, Royce?


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