I have a corner of a main sill that is cracked and shows some rot. What would be the best available repair filler, that has some strength for damaged body wood?? Suggestions??
Jack I always use fiberglass and resin, I have used wood hardener on wood that was a little soft with good results, have fun,KB
quix poly
Hey Steve, I din't think you could still get quick poly! Good stuff. KB
If its in an area that doesn't bend and is not stressed, Durham's rock hard water putty has always worked well for me.
If there is some stress on it, nothing beats fiberglass cloth and epoxy resin. Epoxy resin is a bit pricy for small jobs, but one of those double hypo type glue dispensers for epoxy glue is essentially the same thing and way cheaper.
Buy a quality glue such as the locktite brand. I have had terrible luck with gorrilla brand. Also do not get the 5 minute type, it is weaker than the longer setting type and hardens too quickly to do an area of more than a few square inches.
If you haven't worked with resin and glass before there's lots of info on the net. Make sure the area is clean and oil free. Wipe with acetone (and allow to dry) before applying resin. Make sure any cloth you use is thouroughly saturated. The cloth will be invisible if properly saturated.
Cheers
schuh
Kwick poly hands down.
I use Kwik Poly for all kinds of things. It is great stuff.
And Bud is right. Buy the slowest setting stuff you can get. It is FAR better in the end.
To fill a larger area I use POR 15 epoxy putty, it works extremely well.
The best way to attack it is with West Epoxy. You need to dry it out with a heat lamp overnite if possible. Drill several holes into the area up to the good wood. Pour or inject the epoxy into the wood while it is hot. Let it cure and then use some microfiller and repeat the process with out the heat. After that is cured then use your choice of filler (bondo) to finish. When complete it will have the tinsel strength of aluminum the same thickness. I've used this method on boats for decades and it lasts forever. This is what I did on my '27 fordor on some of the pieces that were salvagable.
Just some FYI....fiberglass resins do not block out the moisture which means the wood will eventually rot and fail. Rot depends on air and moisture to live, West Epoxy will stop the process by sealing it completely. This epoxy is what is used on todays commercial aircraft along with carbon fiber. It maintains its strength and flexiblity while sealing the damaging elements from the material its used on. It does however have to be painted or protected from the UV rays of the sun. You can email me through the forum if you need more information. By far this is the best possible way to repair damaged wood...bar none !!!
This thread may have some answers for you.
http://mtfca.com/discus/messages/6/1037.html?
I used epoxy and saw dust
www.abatron.com. Click onto "Building and Restoration Products", then click onto "Wood Restoration and Maintenance". Get the wood restoration kit, containing "LiquidWood" (2 part 1:1 epoxy liquid) and "Wood epox" (2 part 1:1 epoxy putty).
I use this for repairing and restoring rotted wood on my Victorian house and it works great! I wouldn't use anything else. The liquidwood soaks deep into the rotted wood and hardens, restoring the strength to the wood and the wood epox fills any irregularities in the wood. The wood epox is very easy to work with. Can be mixed by hand, like playdo and pressed into the wood and once it cures, can be sanded like wood. Jim Patrick
Titebond III is a completely waterproof yellow wood glue which replaces Resorcinal epoxy glue, which was, for decades, the premium marine grade, exterior waterproof glue which is no longer made thanks to the %&$#&@*! government. Jim Patrick
http://kwikpolyllc.com/
Keith,
its still out there, but we have to learn how to spell it!
Steve
Jamestown Distributors sells West products, and from time to time they offer free shipping, - I think the last one ended last night.
No financial interest, - just a satisfied customer.
Roar
Kind of a different approach to your problem but with one of the little oscillating saws like the Fein Multimaster and some sharp chisels I'll bet you could cut out the bad area and glue in a matching wood patch. I've done this taking time to select similar grain patterns and achieved a repair which could hardly be detected.
Steve, you may have a point there, maybe thats the reason I could'nt find it! KB
John, That is the good thing about Abatron's, "Liquidwood". You can pour the thin, clear epoxy mixture into a dry rotted area and it is thin enough to soak deep into and saturate the soft, dry rotted wood and once it has hardened, the wood is as hard and strong as it was originally, retaining the original shape without having to make new complicated compound angled pieces. It soaks in best if there is a reservoir for you to pour the Liquidwood into so if you know it is rotten, but the wood is still intact. you can drill several holes down into the dry rotted area and pour the Liquidwood into the holes. It will not set up for quite awhile, so you can continue pouring it in and the wood will continue soaking it up until the entire area of rotted wood has been saturated, or the Liquid Epoxy starts to set up, or you run out. You can then fill the drilled holes with the "Wood epox" putty. Jim Patrick
I spent several years working in a restoration shop and it is incredibly complicated and expensive to get rid of that junk WHEN it fails..... not if, WHEN. Pouring that crap in an old house may be one thing, but in a structural part of the car it is a crime. It's like using JB Weld to fix one of the engines you do, and you would never do that. Jack, do it right , and John from lafeyettte said it perfectly. They didn't have the Fein or Porter Cable saws back when i did it for a living, and it would now make a repair like that an easy thing. Study some simple ship repair joints and do the repair right.
For a "home brew" repair this has worked for me.
Put about 1/2 cup of lacquer thinner in a quart can.
Add styrofoam until no more will dissolve
Remove any un-dissolved styrofoam
Now add 1/2 cup of lacquer thinner
Now immerse or brush on repeated coats. If you can form a cardboard dam/cup around the part you are working on to contain the runoff. When it will not absorb any more, then remove the dam and give it a quick wipe down to remove excess on the surface.
Let the lacquer thinner evaporate, maybe give it a day or overnight anyway
The usual cautions apply;
Use a metal container, a natural bristle brush and gloves that the lacquer thinner won't attack and work in a well ventilated area (save your liver for gin)!!!
The science is as follows; The styrene fills the pores of the wood that the "dry rot" has hollowed out. The lacquer thinner is only a "carrier" that vanishes. In higher stressed locations make your own judgement as to it's suitability. It is way way stronger than styrofoam.
YIKES ! i give up.
Tim, you may have spent several years working in a "restoration shop" and think it is a "crime" to use restoration products to restore a wooden part on a Model T or JB Weld to repair a crack in a block, but I, like many here, have spent over 40 years working on Model T's and restoring antiques and Victorian houses and except for using wood repair products to salvage rotted spokes, do not consider it a crime to use quality restoration products to salvage original parts which, when mixed and used correctly, the parts can be salvaged and saved and do not need to be reconstructed using compound angles and complicated joinery, which if done wrong can come apart and fail just as easily as you claim the epoxies we advocate will. I am experienced in woodworking, joinery and restoration and though I am capable of "doing it right", as you say, there are many here who do not have the skill necessary to perform quality joinery and for them, other, just as suitable methods are available and considered a Godsend, such as the epoxies many of us have used and advocated for many years. Perhaps you did not read the instructions properly, which caused your jobs to fail, or perhaps you used "crap" restoration products but, I have used these epoxies hundreds of times and have never had any of my applications fail, ever. Jim Patrick
I hear birds or something. You guys hear it?
Cheap, cheap, cheap.
All great ideas, but I want to agree with West System Epoxy. I worked for Gougeon Brothers [ makers of west system ] for 13 years. Millions of projects have used this method. They have a great website, and have loads of free info a click away...Best part is it may be sold right in your home town, several marina and boating supply stores have the basic 105/205 and fillers to thicken. Check out the website, it's some great winter reading....Jim Derocher AuGres, Michigan
Hmmmmmm........this is beginning to rate right up there with water pumps and babbitt....... <snicker> .......
LOL! Ever price good epoxy wood restoration kits? They are far, far from cheap, but to me are worth it and do get the job done. Jim Patrick
PS. Craig. Don't forget to add band linings (wood vs kevlar) to that list.
Oil too Jim.......
Jack, I have some Kwik Poly, will try and remember to drop it off on way back from Findlay.
I agree, West Epoxy system is wonderful stuff, but if you don't want to spend $30 - $100 for a 3 sq in repair, the Locktite extended setting time epoxy in the double hypo tube is the next best thing. Easily obtainable at Wally World too (about $4).
schuh
I have a coupe with some holes in the wood made by insects. This was a recent purchase and there are no signs that any insects remain. I am wondering what the best way to repair these holes? They are scattered here and there and overall the wood seems sound. Your advice would be appreciated.
Willis
Well knowing that everybody has an opinion on this, I will explain my 4 decades of experience repairing wood. I use West Epoxy on everything because it not only fixes the problem it will eliminate future repairs. For Willis' problem I would suggest thinning out the epoxy with a small amount of acetone. The heated wood will absorb thinned epoxy like a sponge. When it cures coat it with non-thinned epoxy and then use a filler for easy finishing. The wood will be stronger than new and you'll NEVER have to go back to repair a repair.
Don,
Interesting idea. Since the holes range from a 1/16" to 3/16" I was wondering if there was a product to use like an injection into the holes that will follow the passages and fill them up. The surfaces are painted and you see an 1/8" hole here and there that is why I was looking for an injection type of hardener. Any other ideas?
Willis
Willis, if the wood is heated (hot to the touch) and you thin the epoxy, you can brush or use a large hypo to get the epoxy in the holes. The heat will do the rest. I wouldn't suggest using the epoxy over painted surfaces because it may block the saturation rate. You might consider drilling out the holes to allow a greater amount of epoxy saturation. If the piece gets wet by rain or washing you might consider sealing the entire piece with the epoxy and then painting it.
Hope this helps...
Willis,
It sounds like powder post beetles. you'd better pray they are gone--the like to remain dormant (or they put their eggs in the wood) and then come out later. Maybe there is a poison you can add to the epoxy. I'd Google this and see if anyone has some good answers. I've seen them destroy antique furniture.
T'
David D.