Fender Repairs--bolts or rivets or ???

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Fender Repairs--bolts or rivets or ???
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 12:03 pm:

Hi, y'all.

I am back with another question. I am planning to repair my fenders and would like to remove the fender-irons to get access to that part of the fenders.

If I do this, should I use bolts in the place of the rivets when I re-assemble them? Is it difficult or expensive to gear up to rivet them?

Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 01:12 pm:

You can reassemble them to look just as nice using carriage head bolts with the same head size as the round headed rivets. Just be sure you use smooth rounded heads without the raised identification marks used on modern bolts. If you can't find them with smooth heads, get some with the raised ID marks, clamp them in a drill press chuck and while the bolt is spinning, file off the marks, then smooth with successively finer sandpaper until the head is as smooth as glass. While it is in the drill press you can also file round the square shoulder just under the head so it will fit into the round rivet hole. Get the bolt with enough length so you can hold onto the end of the bolt with vice grips to keep it from turning, while you tighten the nut, as there will be nothing else to hold onto. Once you have it nice and tight, you can cut off the threaded excess and pein the end. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill dugger on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

Dennis:
When I put my Depot hack fenders on I purchased carriage bolts and filed all the marking off the head and used them. I filed and sand papered them smoooooooooth. Now for the purist that is a no no but for looks that is o.k. Unless you are going for judging and points use the bolts, and if you have to take them off you can and when you read the post above mine you will see what Jim has to say and I agrees completely
Good luck and "Happy T'ing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 01:26 pm:

PS. Here is a fender that was reassembled using carriage head bolts. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 03:34 pm:

Restoration Supply has a rivet that has threads on one end as well, but for the most affordable & quickest fix would be Jim's process, end results is the same.
I've also seen round allen head screws used with a small washer and nut on the underside plus a tiny dot of bondo on top and sand smooth to cover the hex. 100 years from now nobody will ever know the difference ....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 05:45 pm:

Great.

Is there an issue of the carriage bolts loosening up?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Todd Gaito on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 06:06 pm:

Dennis,
Look up Big Flats Rivet Co.. They sell the rivets and proper tools to install them like original. The rivets are soft and can be shaped to conform to the rib in the top of the fender.
Just another option I found.

Todd


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve McClelland on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

Dennis
In Jim's post he stated how to install the bolts buy them in a long length I'd guess anything about one inch to one and a half inches would work fine. After you get them tight cut the excess off pein or brad the end they won't back off they will stay.
If for any reason you have to remove them take a hack saw or drimel tool and cut a slot in the head of the bolt grind the piened edge back smooth use a socket or wrench and screw driver in the slot and remove just like any other screw... Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mike_black on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 06:28 am:

Dennis,
They may come loose tomorrow, but, I used carriage bolts over 10 years ago and they are still tight!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 07:02 am:

I should have mentioned, to reduce the chances of backing off, you can use steel locknuts with lockwashers. Mcmaster Carr (Go to www.mcmaster.com and type "locknuts" into the searchbox or "jam locknuts") has a wide selection of both steel and nylock hex nuts (I prefer all steel locknuts, because the cutting off of the excess threads can generate heat which can melt the nylon insert). If you get a low profile lock nut (jam nuts) it won't be as apparent that you used carriage head bolts in place of rivets. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 01:28 pm:

Thanks! I am glad that I asked!

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan B on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 06:10 am:

Go for the rivets! My Dad and I did it without never having done it before. The key was to get them red hot using a blowtorch. All it takes is 2-3 strikes.

I wouldn't be afraid to do it again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:13 am:

Thanks, Dan.

That's what I am thinking. I really need to get the brackets off in order to fix the fenders.

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:40 am:

I purchased the fender rivets from Langs and they worked for me. When reinstalling the brackets I reinstalled the bracket with 1/4" bolts. I removed each bolt one at time and installed a rivet in its place. By doing this the bracket was secure when brading the rivet.
I blocked the fender up on my bench and used a steel block against the head while I heated the rivet cherry red and braded it. If there was any scaring or indenting on the rivet head I filed or sanded them smooth.
This method worked for me.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:01 pm:

After this discussion, I am conflicted: I understand that either rivets or carriage bolts will work well. I was considering peening the ends of the carriage bolts to lock the nut in-place, and I think I probably will, but I am first going to check prices for tools and parts required to rivet.

Thanks for everything.

By the way: Jim Patrick, those are some pretty fenders! Mine are a little lumpy at this point.

Dennis.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 11:40 am:

Thanks Dennis. The fender shown was not only lumpy, dented and badly pitted with rust and rusted through at the shelf and area where it attaches to the running board, but it was ripped at the side rivets point above the wheel well. It was straightened as much as possible, repaired with plates over the rusted through areas, filled and smoothed with Bondo, then primed with Rustoleum Industrial Red Primer in the aerosol can and finished with a double wet coat of Gloss Black Rustoleum Appliance Epoxy in the aerosol can. I was very impressed with the Appliance Epoxy which needed no wet sanding or compounding. What you see there is the way it looked after air drying. I use it alot now. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 01:21 pm:

To each his own and I'll be the first to admit that I'll spend 3 days on a 3 hour project just to have fun...

But when it comes to mounting fender saddles, I'm lazy as all get out :-) Can't be bothered with rivets and I cheat and use these...then just a little dab will do ya when finally mounted and spot painted...

I thread the nut all the way up, grind to length, and then walk the nut off before mounting, then I just stake them at the nut with a good solid punch when mounted...


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Lambert on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 03:52 pm:

Thanks, George. Staking it sounds interesting, too. My chief concern was to avoid it loosening.

Dennis.


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