Newbies ... be careful checking your oil level !!!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Newbies ... be careful checking your oil level !!!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Tuesday, October 09, 2012 - 11:56 pm:

OK, I'm a relative newbie, only in the T hobby for a little more than a year, but I learned something today that may help other newcomers to the hobby.

I decided to change the oil today with about 400 miles since the last oil change. On draining the old oil the amount that came out was not nearly 4 quarts. OMG!

I check the oil level fairly regularly by opening the top spigot and watching for oil to dribble out. i know now that a small dribble doesn't indicate the oil level is up to the top spigot.

Apparently splashed oil clinging to the upper part of the crankcase can make a fair dribble even if the oil level is way to low.

I now know to look for a good stream and not just a dribble when I check that upper spigot !!

I don't think any damage was done, still runs quiet with no knocking, I may have dodged a bullet.

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:06 am:

Congratulations on your bullet dodging!
It doesn't get mentioned often enough. If you look carefully, most oil pans seem to point the spigot down ever so slightly. But just enough oil stays in the inside end of the spigot to almost always give several good drops. I went through the same thing with my first T. Ever since, I want to see a stream for at least a half second.
Your topic line had me worried1 I was just glad to see a happy ending.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:14 am:

You should be checking the lower spigot for a good flow, not the upper spigot.

If oil is flowing out of the upper spigot, you have over-filled the crankcase. The only time you need to check the upper spigot is after an oil change or after adding oil.

It's a simple and easy system - follow the instructions in the owners manual.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:28 am:

Some people rant that sight gauges are a risky bet, as they may fall off or get broken and you lose you oil.

Here's how I mount my sight gauge so it's up close to the pan and not on a 3" long pipe.



You don't need liquid flow for a pressure or liquid level gauge, so I always run a sheetmetal screw into the fitting next to the source, and make it just tight enough to flow a few drops a minute. I then cut the head off if needed.

Then you can break the line, lose the sight glass or whatever, and liquid loss will be insignificant.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 07:56 am:

I used to have a sight guage just like that on my 15 touring. It leaked badly so I went back to the reliable original petcocks. Yet another "improvement" that hurts reliability of your Model T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:22 am:

I really like both the appearance and practicality of the dipstick I got from Texas T's. No offense to the purists but I think it is a considerable improvement.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:28 am:

I installed an oil sight gauge on one of my friend's Ts. The key to keeping it from leaking was to Loctite the fittings. I also JB-Welded a rare-earth magnet to the top of it and positioned the sight glass so the magnet was stuck to the oil pan. It's easy to remove since it is not permanently attached to the oil pan, and the magnet and Loctite will keep it from rotating. No problems yet!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:30 am:

John

If you have the capability to post pictures, I would love to see some of your dipstick installation !

Thanks
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:12 am:

These aren't very good but they're all I've got. You have to drill a little hole in the apron then the top of the dipstick is all that shows. It's brass and knurled, looks nice and works great. I find that I check my oil more often now that I don't have to get under the car to do it. Roy Mathis had put one on his car and told me about it. Oh, a rubber grommet for the hole is included.
akuret oil gaugeakuret oil gauge


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:26 am:

" used to have a sight guage just like that on my 15 touring. It leaked badly so I went back to the reliable original petcocks."

Really, Royce, you couldn't stop a couple of O rings and pipe fittings from leaking? And you couldn't put in a flow restrictor? You would rather have a single point failure?

There have been a number of engines ruined by accidentally leaving a petcock open. It only takes once....

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:27 am:

Bud,
For your consideration, you might look at

http://www.modeltford.com/pl.aspx?t=s&v=3079DS&page=1

I have one of these and think it's great! I open the hood anyway to turn on the gas petcock, and the dipstick handle is close to the petcock.
Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 10:50 am:

Dave, that one has the advantage of not having to drill the apron so that's a plus. Does it attach to the firewall or does it just stand free?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:21 am:

One newbie to another:

I've been given to understand that the proper oil level is anywhere between the two spigots and that too much oil—in other words, enough to get a forceful stream out of the top spigot—can be harmful. You don't, for instance, want to get any significant amount of oil flowing down your driveshaft tube.

Yes, sight gauges are nice, but if you must crawl under the car to turn on the gas valve anyway, you might as well open the oil spigots while you're down there. My practice for filling is to open the top spigot and pour in just enough oil to get a thin stream. An extra half-cup of oil isn't going go make more than 1/8th inch of difference in the oil level, so I don't worry about being precise. It's not like a cake recipe.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erik Johnson on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:35 am:

You don't have to crawl under the car to check the oil if you have a petcock wrench. You will have to get down on one knee.

Reproductions are available but they're not as nice as original ones that have a wider handle and a clean-out tip:

http://www.modeltford.com/item/3079CK.aspx


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:39 am:

You don't have to crawl under, or even get down on one knee if you can do pushups. If you can't do pushups and still have a driver's license, maybe look at your lifestyle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:42 am:

Thanks Erik. An original petcock check rod came with my '26 coupe when I bought it in 1970 and I always wondered what that little flat extension was coming off the end of the wrench. Now, I know it is to unplug the petcock of trash. I learn something new every day. Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:43 am:

If you turn on the gasoline at the sump valve, you're going to be on your back.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:46 am:

Put your knees on the ground next to the running board. Put your right arm on the ground and reach in with the left hand to turn the petcock. That way you don't need to crawl under. If the ground is dirty, lay a clean rag down under the knees.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:56 am:

I have a dipstick, that I bought from either Lang's or one of the other suppliers - I don't remember. It is easy, and almost out of sight under the hood.

It has only one drawback, and I suppose the problem is more in my head. The dipstick itself was made for a GM car, and has GM markings on it. I find that mildly offensive, but I work very hard at reminding myself that it keeps me off the ground!

P.S. I have a fuel shutoff that doesn't require getting under, either.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Patrick on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:06 pm:

Peter, where do you put the dipstick in at to get a realistic reading of the oil level? It sure can'T be at the breather at the front of the engine. Did you drill a hole somewhere in the hogshead? Jim Patrick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 01:11 pm:

I have an old one of the "petcock wrench" as depicted in Erik's link, instead of a loop for a handle, the end of the handle is just bent ell shaped, about 2" long.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 04:21 pm:

I was obviously not quite clear in my first comment. Whether you are looking at the upper or lower petcock, a couple drips does not mean there is oil at that level. Because I am often driving in steep hills, I do often run my oil just a bit above the top petcock.

The oil dipsticks are a good idea. A very good friend of mine had an original vintage one on one of his Ts. I just wish they would make the new ones to look more correct for the vintage car.
I have often considered making one for one of my Ts. I haven't yet, and won't for either of my two brass era projects. Maybe I should for either the boat-tail or the "well accessorized" coupe.
One important point. Whether you install a sight gauge, or a dip stick, make sure you install it in the proper (the lower) petcock hole. I have seen several on cars installed in the upper location. They just don't work very well there.
Although if I were to install a dipstick on an engine I was doing major work on, I would be tempted to drill and mount it in front of the magneto field coil. It could be made easily accessible under the hood next to my (added for safety) fuel shutoff. That way it would not have to go through the splash apron, or be tempting to curious fingers.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Claverie on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:04 pm:

Jim, the dipstick "kit" includes a 90 degree fitting that screws into the lower petcock hole, a soft-enough tube that it can be bent to conform, with a bracket at the top end that uses one of the bolts that holds the firewall. Into that goes a dipstick, that someone found, probably through trial and error, reads correctly. As I said, unfortunately it is from a chebby something, but it works. Lang's calls it a T3068DIP, and it sells for $48.25. The picture on page 208 isn't too good, but there it is. They also sell the repro Akuret kit ( a period-correct accessory) for $5.50 more, but youhave to drill a hole in your splash apron and it shows.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:36 pm:

Here is the dipstick setup we made for my '24 Speedster with 5/16" copper tubing and a few fittings. It required a hole in the firewall (about 1" too high) which I am fine with but would not have done on an original or restored car. The dipstick itself has been kicking around the garage for years and I don't know the original application.

The bottom of the stick is level with the lower petcock, and as long as some oil is showing there is sufficient in the engine (the last photo indicates oil is at the upper petcock level).






Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Dufault on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

Nice job Chris...

John Manuel - the upper end attaches to the firewall.
The one from Lang's looks like this on my '26 Touring....I suppose someday I can try to inscribe
Ford on it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Manuel, Lafayette, La. on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 08:28 am:

Its all very clear to me now! Thanks Dave.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:02 am:

Chris's dip stick and copper tube look like a great idea.

Here is the oil level gage that is mounted on the firewall of my 1919 T.
(The picture was taken before we cleaned up the T after being in the barn for 45 years.)
It works with a float mechanism that is attached to the bottom petcock and a wire inside a wire coil.
Low is when the oil is at the bottom petcock and horizontal is at the top.
It works great when the oil is hot and the the wire is lubricated! :-)




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Bamford, Edmonton AB on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:48 am:

Fred, that is one VERY cool accessory.

Dave, thanks for those pictures, I should make up something like that (no holes drilled) for my '26 Touring using a suitable dipstick from a wreckers or Pick-yer-Part.

Just as a suggestion but not a criticism — if I had your setup on on my car I would strip the yellow plastic off the pull to help it blend in to period.


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