TT stops in high

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: TT stops in high
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Marquart on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:30 am:

This group has always been helpful to me as I worked on my TT and here is another. While driving on a level road, 22 mph, the truck began to slow down quickly! I put the clutch to neutral and the engine kept running. Started normally in low, then high and ran for another mile or so and the same thing happened. Truck and engine slowing quickly (like a stall). Neutral, start in low then high and all works well. What do you think? Do I have a adjustment problem with high gear? Thanks.. Dave

Also, here are some pictures. http://idahomodeltt.shutterfly.com/pictures#:albumId=21


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Cameron Whitaker on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:41 am:

The big question is, was the engine still running more or less at the same RPM? If so, you may need to tighten up your clutch disks. I would say go to the T Bible for the information on how to do it.

Basically, here's the procedure. First, remove the inspection cover and jack up one of the rear wheels. On the last drum in the transmission, you will see three arms on it. On each arm, there is a big slotted screw with a cotter pin through it. Remove the cotter pin from each one, turning the engine over with the hand brake all the way forward (make sure you don't drop it in the transmission) and tighten each of the three screw 1/2 of a turn. Then install new cotter pins. If your clutch disks were slipping, then that will fix the problem. If they are bottomed out and there is no more adjustment left, you will need new clutch disks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 08:46 am:

Driving fast takes more fuel than getting started. You may be getting enough fuel for low speed but having trouble when the faster speed uses up the fuel in the bowl. I'd check my fuel system.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Gary Tillstrom on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:03 am:

I agree with Steve, mine did that and I found the sediment bowl at the tank full of crap. Cleaned it out and it ran fine again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Marquart on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:03 am:

Cameron, yes, the engine was still running at the same speed when I went to neutral. Very strange feeling when it slowed down.. like I had the rear brakes on. (if they would only be that good!)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Marquart on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:06 am:

The fuel system is another thing to check.. I have rust in the tank.. I see it when I drain the 'filter' on the tank.. it may have made it to the sediment bowl.. will check this morning.. thanks..


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 11:25 am:

Not enough oil in the rear axle... Rear axle oil level on TT should be LEVEL with the filler plug (the filler plug that is half way up the rear differential housing). If you carry the oil level slightly below the plug (as you would on a regular T car rear end), the upper worm gear bearings can run dry and when it happens, it feels like the brakes are starting to set. The worm gear housing also gets pretty hot, although not usually too hot to touch. There is an article about the importance of correct TT rear axle oil level in one of the mid 1920's Ford service bulletins.

The feeling of "all of a sudden having the rear brakes slightly applied" can also be caused by a cracked/defective low speed drum. If this is the case, you will likely notice a very "spongy" low speed pedal, or a low speed pedal that goes all the way to the floor.

-(Actual troubleshooting experience gained while working on T's full time for 10 years)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Murray - Anacortes, WA on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 12:02 pm:

Hi Dave - Have you adjusted the low band lately ?? I tightened the low band and experienced the same symptoms. Unfortunately, I kept driving until the band overheated the drum slowing the car to a stop. The drum had cracked and was shaving material off the band causing me to re-adjust tighter and tighter. Hope that helps !!!

W


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Haynes on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 04:06 pm:

It's possible the hub brake lining has torn loose from the shoe and is rotating with the drum, wedging against the shoe or cam or anchors. Or, if you have dragging Rocky Mountain-style outside brakes, the drum may be heating and expanding, causing the band to drag even harder.

Try it again and, when the truck starts to labor and stall, get out and feel the hubs/drums for heat build up. Can you roll it easily after it is stopped?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Marquart on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 - 09:06 pm:

Thank you one and all.. Attempted solutions: I did check the brake drums and they were cold to the touch. The truck does move and roll smoothly after stopped. Fluid in the differential at the top (side) plug. Low speed peddle is firm but it had been adjusted recently. There may still be a problem there - will continue to check that area. (I never felt the crank case before so don't know what it should be but it did feel hot to the touch).

Found lots of rust in the sediment bowel on the carb. - cleaned it out and did not have any problems on the test drive. To tell the truth, I did not take it out for a long drive - I will do that tomorrow.

Wayne, I am concerned I may have the same problem you had experienced. What did you do to solve that other than continue to tighter the band?

Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Murray - Anacortes, WA on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:38 am:

Dave,

Take the key "out" of the ignition and put it in your pocket. Ensure nothing can drop into the transmission once the cover is removed. Ensure you have a replacement gasket if your cover has not been removed lately or is damaged during removal. Remove the six screws on the transmission cover and then remove the cover. Have another person hand crank the engine slowly as you inspect the low speed drum for cracks during rotation. While your at it, inspect the brake & reverse drum for cracks as well. It may be helpful to have a flashlight during the inspection. Always use care to not let any small tools or hardware like loose screws or nuts or washers or the ignition key be anywhere above the open transmission cover lest they fall to the bottom of the crankcase. You will say bad words if something drops in !!!!!!

W


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Murray - Anacortes, WA on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:48 am:

TT

Sent from my iPod


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 06:55 am:

The low band should engage with the pedal about 1" above the floorboard. If you have it adjusted too tight the low band will not release completely when allow the clutch pedal to release into to drive position.

This will cause sluggish running as you have been experiencing, and as Wayne says, it can eventually destroy the transmission. Loosen the low pedal as much as possible while still able to achieve full engagement. Same for the brake and reverse bands.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Marquart on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:31 am:

It appears I may have a number of problems that the Forum recognizes .. What a great place to come for assistance! Before I do any damage to the transmission (any more damage) I will do the inspection first.. What is interesting is the last time I drove the TT (17 years ago) we did not have these problems - however, the adjustment was made during our rebuild - so will check that again - later this week.. We are moving my daughter into a new home this week and will not use the TT as we had planned!

I will not be able to do any type of test drive until this weekend now, so will let you all know what happened then.. Tks. again all 73 Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Clark on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 08:34 pm:

I'm a newby. Just purchased a 1927 Tudor, and I love it! I have a loud knock when I apply my brakes. Help


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

Robert -- That could be the dreaded ring and pinion gear slippage. If the thrust washers in the rear end are worn or gone, the gears will jump a tooth (or a few) and make a very loud noise. If that's the case, it's time to go through the rear end and replace the thrust washers with bronze ones. It's the first thing you should do when acquiring a "new" Model T. Do a search here on the Forum for instructions, or better yet, get the MTFCA Rear End rebuilding manual.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 11:13 pm:

Robert, take a look here:

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html
http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Clark on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 02:31 pm:

Thanks Mike and Steve. I have ordered the MTFCA books, and will check to see if this is the ring and pinion gear slippage is the problem. When I bought the car, it had very little brakes (almost none). So I slightly adjusted the brake band. After I adjusted the band I noticed the problem. I have brakes now, but the car jerks when I apply the brakes, and it actually sounds more like a gear problem. Does sound like the problem you described. I'm going to losen the band up slightly first in case I have it too tight.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Clark on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 03:26 pm:

Ok, I loosened the brake band back up. Still have a loud knocking sound when applying the brakes, I also hear what appears to be a flapping sound almost like a belt is loose, when I drove the car around the block. The fan belt is OK and all the transmission bands appear to be OK. Could this also be caused by the ring and pinion?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

Sure could. Try jacking up the car and with the parking brake released try to see if you can move either of the wheels in or out perceptibly. If you can, it means the rear end is shot.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 11:06 pm:

Robert, take out the differential plug and stick your finger into the oil. Does it look silvery?

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Clark on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:04 pm:

This is what I've done:
Checked oil in rear end for metal color or shavings. That was OK. Checked both rear wheels for side-to-side play, That was OK (good and tight). Checked the rear brakes pads, they were OK. Jacked the rear end up, pulled the wheels off and started the car. In gear (low and high) a definite knock in rear end. No noise in rear end when I applied the brake. I'm wondering if it is the differential or the axle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:16 pm:

There's just one way to find out.


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