Anyone Have Any Experience With WARDS RIVERSIDE 30 x 3-1/2 TIRES

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Anyone Have Any Experience With WARDS RIVERSIDE 30 x 3-1/2 TIRES
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 02:37 am:

as sold by Lucas?
For $152 a pop I'm wondering if Lucas is doing something someone else isn't.

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/biasprices031611r2.htm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ron Dupree on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 08:32 am:

The Lucas Riverside tire is made well. Only complaint I know of is life. I only got 5000 miles out of the 30 x 3 1/2 rear tires on my '16, but may get close to 8000 miles out of the 30 x 3 front tires. Your mileage may vary.

Ron Dupree


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:03 am:

Can you still get 30X3 Black NON SKID Firestones?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:27 am:

Yes you can, but they'll cost you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 10:38 am:

Steve;
Looked on Lucas Web site. Didn't like Lucas's service and they weren't listed. I'll look on Coker's.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 10:49 am:

I have it on very good authority that at this time; All clincher tires, regardless of name or tread pattern are all made in the same factory, with the same casings, and the same rubber. The only difference between any brand of 30x3 or 30x3+1/2 is tread pattern and the name on the side.

I do not know for sure, but I have speculated that the reason the tires don't seem to last as long as tires that were available in the 1960's-1970's is because hobbyists were complaining that the tires were too hard to mount so the manufacturers began making them slightly softer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 11:03 am:

I have a NOS Ward's riverside 3.5" clincher. probably made in the early 60's. It was the worst tire mounting experience of my life requiring 3 guys, 6 hours, a heat box, 4 tire irons, a bottle of soap and copious amounts of cusswords.

That said it appears to be wearing like iron.

schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 01:31 pm:

I have Firestone 30X3 Non-skids on my car. Yes, they're quite a bit more expensive than any other tire available (now that white tires are no longer manufactured) and in my experience, they wear out much faster. The designers, of course, were more concerned with spelling out words in rubber than they were about the advantages of diamond patterns, rain channels and symmetry.



Last time I checked, Non-Skids are also available in our rear wheel, 30X3.5-inch size, but not only would they wear out even more quickly back there due to torque and braking loads, they'd also be completely incorrect because they were not manufactured in that size back in the heyday of the Model T—at least not to my newbie-knowledge.

..


While I'm on the subject (and sticking my know-nothing-newbie neck out): Though black Non-Skids look cool and people think of them as "period-correct" for Tin Lizzies—at least on the front wheels—they were never original equipment. In fact, Ford didn't mount treaded tires of any kind until 1914-15, and that was only on the rear wheels. The old photos show white, off-white and then light-gray tires, progressively, as more and more elemental carbon was gradually added to the rubber recipe for increased tread life, until about 1925 (when Ford mounted low-pressure balloon tires for the first time), and those had enough carbon in the rubber to be considered black. This pretty much means that prior to the mid-1920's, no Fords had black tires, so any tires manufactured today would be incorrect for them—and that will remain the case until somebody starts making white or gray tires again.

Now, I draw some of my conclusions from data I found on the internet and as such, they may be inaccurate, so do feel free to correct me sans diplomacy and I'll appreciate the education.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Baker on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 02:06 pm:

Does anyone remember seeing a red sidewall black tread Non Skid tire?About what years would they have been used?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 03:35 pm:

I have Lucas Ward's Riverside tires on one of my cars. They have been there about 5 years and still look good. I drive about 2,000 miles per year spread around 3 Model T's. So they will likely last longer than I will. By the way, bias tires only lasted 15-20 thousand miles when they were in use during the 1950's, so they never did last as long as the modern radial tires.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ed Archer on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:21 pm:

Did somebody mention Riverside tires? Got my attention! Yeah, I'm somewhat an expert on Wards Riverside tires and I agree with Adam. I think a major part of our tire problems today stems from all the complainers over the years belly aching about how hard they were to mount, so the suppliers resolved that problem. And here we are! I'd rather struggle with mounting a tire (and I do) and have it last "forever" than the lousy new stuff that wears out in a few thousand miles. And then of course there's the other part......easy to put on....., easy to come off while driving. Just my opinion.
#4 out.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:45 pm:

Bob C. -- "...they were not manufactured in that size (do you mean tread pattern?) back in the heyday of the Model T."

Dan Treace has posted ads for Non-Skid tires from as early as 1909, so they were available during "T time."

I do think you're correct about Ford's not supplying Non-Skids on new cars, but I don't know for sure. Black tires were available from about 1917 on, but Fords were still supplied with off-white tires, presumably because of cost. The Ford catalogs show the new cars with off-white "smoothie" tires (clinchers) through the 1925 model year. I expect they could be had from the dealers with black tires and treads, for a little extra $$. Of course the 21" balloon tires were available beginning in the '25 model year, and I've not seen any pics of them other than black with treads.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 05:58 pm:

Ed -- Good to see you here.

You are definitely right about the old Riversides wearing like iron. Testimony to that is the fact that some of our T's are still wearing them today, decades after they quit making them. I agree that I'd rather struggle a bit in mounting them if they would wear longer.

"I think a major part of our tire problems today stems from all the complainers over the years belly aching about how hard they were to mount, so the suppliers resolved that problem."

You could be correct about that, but I have an alternative point of view. It could be that the complainers aren't responsible for the softer, lower-mileage tires today. It could be that the one manufacturer of clincher tires made them softer in order to sell more tires more often. That one manufacturer systematically bought out every other tire maker's clincher molds over the years, so they had no competition. Once you're the only game in town, you can pretty much do what you want.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 10:22 am:

Mike W. -- Specific info on vintage tires is kinda hard to find, even on the internet. In fact, you might be hard pressed to find any data that could be used to compare the characteristics of the new antique tires manufactured today. For instance, the manufacturer doesn't specify details about traction, tread-life, handling in the rain, etc. that a buyer could use to make an informed choice between, say, Universals and Firestones.

Getting info on tires that were actually mounted on wheels a century ago is even harder—at least for me. I checked through my coffee-table books, remembered a few things about articles I had read and checked through internet webpages. What I found was that in the days before the Model T was old enough be considered an antique, Firestone Non-Skid tires had not been manufactured in 30x3.5" size. That means two things:
1.) Model T Fords didn't have them on the back wheels.
2.) I really gotta get a life.

Black tires may have been available since 1917, but vintage photography would suggest that they weren't mounted on Fords until the 1920s. No surprise there, really. Everybody knows that when it came to updating his cars, Henry Ford wanted to be the first to be last.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Neil Kaminar on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 08:04 pm:

To the chemists among us.

Raw rubber is cured in the mold by heat. Could the curing temperature and time effect the hardness of the tire? Can one increase the hardness of a tire by curing it some more? and at what temperature and time?

Neil


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Adam Doleshal on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 12:25 pm:

Neil: That is something I have thought about too. There are places around the United States that re-cap semi truck tires and the last step in the process is steam vulcanizing. I think they have to put the tire in some sort of a vacuum bag and they vulcanize the tires in a pressure chamber for a certain amount of time at a certain pressure and a certain temp. If vulcanizing does make a tire harder, it might not be too hard to find one of these tire re-capping businesses that would try to make your tires harder for you... So long as your first question is not "how much will it cost". Also may be a good idea to explain that these tires do not fit anything that has been manufactured in the past 25 years, therefore do not have to adhere to any "Federal Standards".


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 01:52 pm:

Bob, the 1917 "Rip van Winkle" Ford shown in Bruce's 1994 big black book still had it's original front tires when pictured. They're 30x3",smooth, marked Ford, were made by United States Tire Company & black with white sides. (See side 274)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By R. S. Cruickshank on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 08:03 am:

My thoughts on Wards Riversides as sold by Lukas. They were the most difficult tires to put on that I have encountered. I was able to get them on, (working alone) by using six squeeze clamps and some special lubricant I got from my local tire dealer. The biggest problem is not the tire but the tubes. They don't hold air!!! I try to keep 55 to 60 lbs in them but need to add air every month while the car is sitting in the barn.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:01 am:

I know exactly what you mean about having to add air to the tires every month. I have had to do that since I installed new tubes a couple years ago. They seem to lose a few pounds each week and by the end of the month I have to add 20 pounds.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:21 am:

Montgomery Ward Riversides whine a little louder than the other tread designs.



The original, made-in USA incarnation of this tire is reputed to be the longest-lasting Model T tire ever produced, but tougher to mount and dismount because the rubber is necessarily stiffer. I've been told that during World War Two, Montgomery Ward addressed the rubber shortage caused by Japan's occupation of so much of rubber-producing Southeast Asia by using a higher percentage of goldenrod in their tires. This, combined with whatever else they did to their recipe, resulted in a much tougher rubber compound. In my experience, there's more life left in an old, worn, Riverside tire with minimal tread remaining than there is in a newly manufactured Firestone Non-Skid.

Conversely, I've been given to understand that the Riverside's reputation for durability is no longer relevant because nowadays, all Model T clincher tires, including Riversides, come from the same factory in Vietnam and that the same, much softer rubber recipe is used for all of them. In fact, I've read on this forum that the new Ward Riversides don't last quite as long as the other tread designs because of a slightly smaller footprint. Regardless of appearance, it's a completely different animal than the beast that was produced during WWII.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:33 am:

After all the stories about the difficulty of installing clincher tires, when I set about putting new Riversides on some Hayes rims I was surprised to find it no big deal. Using three irons, I spent about ten to fifteen minutes on each one. I did prepare the tires by letting them lie out in the sun before mounting.

I had one tire losing pressure, and I found that it was because I didn't have the nut on the metal stem tight enough. If you're losing pressure from tubes with metal stems, that may be your problem. If rubber-stemmed (or metal-stemmed) tubes are losing pressure, it could be a leaky valve.


Air leaking around a metal stem: tight nut needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:13 am:

The other problem you have is in addition to no nut, you forgot the bridge washer! I have original TR-16, Schrader 888 valve stems on one of my cars, and they hold air better than rubber stem tubes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 11:15 am:

Isn't it normal to lose a little air each month? I find that happens in all my vehicles and the trailer too.

We old timers got used to the attendant at the gas station checking the air, the coolant, the oil, and cleaning the windshield, even adding water to the battery. Now we need to do it ourselves. Checking oil, coolant, and air has become a neglected job. The modern vehicles use much less oil and have coolant recovery systems and the tires are bigger and we don't notice they are low.

Just check them about once a month and before every tour, including the trailer and tow vehicle and you will notice much longer tire life.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:00 pm:

Unless you have tubeless aluminum rims, which you probably do, it is not normal to lose air.
I got sick and tired of airing up the tires on my S10 every week so one time I asked my tire dude if he had anything to seal rims and they did........but after two months it was back to the same crap every week.
I finally said screw this and I now have tubes in all four tires.
I haven't needed to add air since....... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By M Philpott on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:16 pm:

that's the tire I have on mine. I couldn't tell you how many miles they have but I recent'y remounted all five tires do to work on the rims and I didn't even break a sweat. I had them done at a local tire shop by a friend, now he did have a few words and he had to call for his workers to give him a hand. and yes there were some words used that I normally don't here from him.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 07:22 pm:

Don,

Interesting idea. Since the holes range from 1/16" to 3/16" I was wondering if there was a product to use like an injection into the holes that would follow the passages and fill them up. The wood surface is painted and then you see an 1/8" hole here and there which is why I was looking for an injection type of hardener to fill the holes. Anymore ideas?

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 07:24 pm:

Sorry, I put this in the wrong thread!

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Willis Jenkins on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 07:33 pm:

As far as airing up the tires I have no problem doing this once a month, but 20 pounds or more low in a month seems excessive. And yes, the valve cores are snug.

Willis


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 01:05 pm:

The new Wards tires make a bit of a whine, as others have mentioned. Other than that, they are fine. As for ease of mounting, my dad, who was about 85 at the time, mounted all 5, by himself, in about an hour, while I was at work. How difficult can it be?

As for tire wear, it all comes down to this. No tire manufacturer is going to make a 25,000 mile tire for a car that, on average, gets driven 1000 miles per year. That's a poor business plan. Let's all be thankful that we can buy any tires at all for cars 100+ years old.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 02:56 pm:

You've got a point there, Jerry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 12:09 am:

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to also buy a better grade tire for those of us who actually want to use our cars on more than a trip to the shop. I would happily pay extra for a high grade tire that would allow me to drive for a lot more miles. My other cars have older tires on them, one is only on its second set in 40 plus years and still has lots of years left. Barring a puncture and bead cut they should last me out not so the "new era" tires they appear to have been reduced to 99 cent store quality instead of good quality.

These tires are so bad I had to replace the rear tires on my car in Indianna as they were worn out ( and had splits in the sidewalls) after being mounted in Los Angeles at the beginning of the trip. Luckily Lucas have a depot in Dayton so I picked up two of theirs on my way to Richmond.

I then had to make arrangements to have two more sent to me in British Columbia from Calgery via club members. I was hoping that they would last till Los Angeles again but it was not to be.

As for the tubes, they are just as bad, thin tube thickness so when you pump them up they have the characteristics of a party balloon with valve stems that must be made for a pressure of about 25 psi instead of the 60 psi we need.

Hopefully the sellers will eventually deplete their stocks enough and when they reorder take the effort to have the quality improved, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still of the opinion that some accidents have been a result of these faulty tires, but the jury is still out on that.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 02:52 am:

Peter, I'm glad you brought tubes into the discussion.
I bought one or two rubber stemmed tubes and I can tell you I'll never do THAT again.
My tire troubles have been due to previous owners trying to save a buck on tubes (and a couple nails)........now I'M the one paying for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ray Green on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 08:20 am:

just a comment on the Ward river tires, I have them fitted to the front of my 1913 and while driving the racing car drivers parade here were I live for the V8 super cars I had a flat as the tube just let go and I still kept driving for another mile and a half on it and caused no damage to the tire or wheel, I think they are good and I would not buy the firestones ever again as you are only paying for a name... Ray


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 05:37 pm:

For God's sake, yes... I would pay 4x as much for a set of the old Riversides than a set of the new gummy rubber ones... I replaced my rear ones a few years back (they were so old they had cracks through to the cords) and it killed me as they still had probably 10K miles left on them. Sure, they were a bear to dismount, but the new ones, so soft my granddaughter could mount them, wore probably 40% in 1500-2000 miles. (Seriously? I've had bicycle tires that were harder to mount. Yeesh!!!)

I asked earlier, but never heard an answer - the English Dunlops - are they a different/better compound, or more of the same? Like Peter said above, I'd pay a lot more for something approaching the quality of tires we got when I was a kid!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 09:19 pm:

The last thing I recall on this forum regarding Dunlop clinchers was the cost: around $400 a pop.......YIKES


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 09:58 pm:

I was offered some Dunlops, but took a pass when I measured and found that the European tires were too small for my Hayes rims. If they're available in US sizes they may be OK.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Randy Driscoll on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 10:51 pm:

You guys with slow leaks may have a problem that is easy to fix. That pesky little rubber washer in the old metal valve stem caps will swell up with age and press on the valve core. The first time I ran into this I aired up a tire and the next day it was flat. I aired it up again and carefully checked the valve core for leakage. No leaks. Screwed on the cap and the next it was flat again. I broke it down and found nothing wrong with the tube. Luckily it was only a Model A wheel, you don't even need tools to put a tire on one of them.
After finding nothing wrong with the tube, I mounted and aired up the tire. This time I left the cap off overnight. The next day it was still full of air.
Since that time I have found several instances where old caps have let air escape at various rates.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 11:07 pm:

For Bob Coiro as from request by Mike Walker,

Here are some adv on Firestone, which quickly became the largest tire mfg in America, due to the nice relations of Harvey and Henry, no doubt :-)

Anyway, there were 'treaded' or molded tire treads prior to 1909 for automobiles. The round button tread or "Bailey" was a pat, and many mfg were licensed for this thread.

1908 'Automobile Tires'


June 1909 Horselss Age magazine


Then Firestone in Jan 1909 made their famous "Non Skid", probably the pat design got around the Bailey "button" tread.


Horseless Age Jan 6 1909 issue, same issue that had the new Ford at the New York auto show, and note the Goodyear exhibit, they also showed a "treaded tire" too.

By then Firestone was a big mfg, and made any size tires, for sure 30x3 and 30x3 1/2 ...here is adv from 1910


Horseless Age 1910

and in 1914

Motor 1914

plus later years, 1920

a variety of styles and sizes from Firestone

Other mfg made tires in black or gray or red wall or white wall in later years, 1916 and on.




True that Ford left off "treaded" tires, as they cost so much more, and the T needed to be low cost, so it got skinny 3" plain rubber smooth in front, and 3 1/2" in back. Most likey white or off-white smooth.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Friday, October 19, 2012 - 02:45 am:

Thanks, Dan.

:-)


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration