Timing with a True-Fire System

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Timing with a True-Fire System
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Hanson on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 08:50 am:

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a 1912 Touring car that has a True-Fire system. I realize that there are many opinions regarding this system, but it is all I have at this time. I really need some advice from someone that has experience with this system. The phone number of Bittner Engineering on its website is disconnected and I don't know how to reach the manufacturer.

I recently had to change out the head gasket and perform some long overdue maintenance on the engine. In the course of buttoning her up for a restart, I wanted to make sure that the engine was timed correctly. (I am using one of the new Lang's LED timer tools). The True-Fire module is installed in a new timer shell as per the instruction sheet that came with the system. I used a new Anderson timer shell.

What is confusing to me is the position of the top of the timer when the engine is timed at 15 degrees off TDC (on the compression stroke). The hole for the timer rod is much more to the left than I was expecting. I rechecked my timing tool and checked three times to make sure that I was at the correct position on the compression stroke. I took some pictures to show the position of the rotor at TDC. The small rod inside the rotor is positioned between 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock.

I also added a picture showing the approximate positon of the timer when it is supposedly at 15 degress off TDC. You can see how far the timer rod hole is to the left of 12 o'clock.

The main question I have is whether or not this is normal for this type of system? If yes, then I will have quite a job manipulating the timer rod to make sure that it gets to where it needs to be and still clears the wire posts of the timer and the lower radiator tube.

I sincerely appreciate your time and thoughts on this perplexing matter.

Pic 1Pic 2Pic 3


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 12:18 pm:

http://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85743


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Thursday, October 11, 2012 - 09:16 pm:

http://www.true-fire.com/True-Fire%20Installation%206%20to%2012.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Sanders-Auburn Al on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 12:47 am:

Michael, I will try to explain setting the timing with a trufire. The position of the timer cover attachment to the spark leaver (completely retarded) is correct in your photo. Take the plug out of #1 and rotate cylinder to TDC. With the power on, turn the timer cover clockwise until the plug begins to spark, that is the correct setting for the timing. I marked my cover so I could get close when re-setting. I get oil that collects over time in the timer that will make your machine run like crap, a few squirts of carb cleaner to clean the cover will fix the problem. Hope this helps...Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 01:46 am:

I set my TrueFire like Bob sez, but for safety in hand cranking, I look in the plug hole with a flashlight and just as the piston goes down, appox.1/4" I set it there. I use a long screwdriver as a gauge or a thin ruler will work.
Geo. n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 07:28 am:

According to an email from Ed himself, this is the routine.

Regards all,
Garnet


1. Set the Spark Rod all the way to Retard or at the top.

2. Remove all four spark plug wires.

3. Remove all four spark plugs.

4. Attach plug wires back to plugs and set each of them on the head, turn on the ignition key.

5. One person now has to slowly turn the crank, by hand, just until the #1 and #4 plugs start firing, while a second person peaks in the spark plug hole with a small pen light to note the position of the piston. If the piston has just reached Top Dead Center and started down about 1/8th inch, you are good to go and can turn off the ignition key, put the plugs back in and attach the wires.


Alignment Procedure (when the above did not indicate alignment)

6. Remove the Spark Rod from the Timer and rotate the Timer Connection about 1/2 inch closer to the Passenger Side or Counter Clockwise looking from the Front.

7. One person has to turn the crank, by hand, while a second person peaks in the spark plug hole with a small pen light to note the position of the piston. Stop turning the crank when the #1 piston has just reached Top Dead Center and started down about 1/8th inch.

8. Slowly move the Timer Connection toward the Driver's Side or Clockwise from the Front. Stop when the buzz noise starts.

9. Bend the Spark Rod until it will go back in the Timer Connection without moving the timer position.

10. Repeat the Test Procedure to insure the setting is correct. Wear in the linkage may move that setting several degrees.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Michael Hanson on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 10:42 am:

Thanks everyone.

Garnet - Does "Ed" refer to Bittner Engineering?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Garnet on Friday, October 12, 2012 - 01:42 pm:

Yes Michael. He emailed those instructions to me after I had contacted him with some questions.

Garnet


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

The major problem relates to the fact that the unit only has two coils that fires two spark plugs every time. Both of those spark plugs are hooked in series with each other and share the spark equally if both spark gaps are the same.

Then, the real problem is the one cylinder is charged with gas and ready for the spark for the power stroke, while once past top dead center the intake valve is opening on the other cylinder that gets a spark that is not required, which may cause a backfire through the carburetor, if that spark happens a little late.

So the main concern is to ensure the spark does not happen very late. Once the engine is running, the spark happens before the piston reaches top dead center, which is not a problem and is normal operation, with the spark lever pulled down a few notches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 05:54 pm:

One more detail! most of those units that I have helped people instal require the timer rod to be lengthened in order to ensure the spark does not occur late and cause the problem described above.

If you car engine sneezes through the carb when the engine is cranked, the spark is occurring too late and the spark rod has to be made longer by bending.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Manuel Voyages, ACT Australia on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

I can't open the Truefire thread Mark posted.

Manuel in Oz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Manuel Voyages, ACT Australia on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 05:51 pm:

I can't seem to open the Truefire thread Mark posted.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Manuel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:25 pm:

I saved a copy some time ago.

Try this one.

TrueFire


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:30 pm:

Thi system can tell a picture file from a text file.

This one might work better.

TrueFire


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:35 pm:

That would have worked, but the file was too big.

This one still works on Ed Bittner's website.

Click http://www.true-fire.com/True-Fire%20Installation%206%20to%2012.pdf for the same thing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James A. Golden on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 08:38 pm:

What you have to do is copy and paste that address to your Internet browser.

It is only forbidden by the MTFCA Forum Website host.

Then it will work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 10:31 pm:

Manuel, I sent you a PM with the link. For some reason it will not work here.
Just type Tru-fire into you search engine and you should be able to get the some information if cutting and pasting will not work.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Manuel Voyages, ACT Australia on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 11:32 pm:

Hi Mark,
I got the link and printed it out. Worked OK this time.
Thanks
Manuel in Oz


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 11:02 am:

Glad it worked.
MarkG


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