Clicking and Popping Revisited

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Clicking and Popping Revisited
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 06:59 pm:

Howdy Fellas,

Im in the shop right now and Im trying to finish the rear axle. The driveshaft bushing is in place and faced properly.
Im now working on shaving the thrust washer down for the right side. Im curious how far is too far. I had a pretty big gap. I fear shaving the left side because I dont want to change my mesh. If I can get it done I can finish the axle and get it mounted. Then on to trans. Thanks guys Have a good weekend.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Wayne Sheldon, Grass Valley, CA on Saturday, October 13, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

I love updates on past threads. Thank you.
How far is too far? When it becomes too loose? (Wince) Just make sure the gear mesh is good. And trim down the bronze/brass washers very evenly and smooth. Otherwise you will will have high spots that will wear down and it will become too loose.
But it sounds as if you have things under control.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 12:13 am:

No. 1. Brandon, the first thing to do is, bolt the two housings together, and get about .010 thousandths end play, with the thrust thickness as close on both sides as you can make it. Use a Dial Indicator.

No. 2. Take the right housing off, and stand, or block the Left housing ring gear, and carriage pointing up. Bolt the drive shaft on the housing using 3 bolts, and add, or subtract drive shaft shims, so the ring gear, and pinion line up by there width only, do not use drive shaft shims in, or out to get gear mesh, that is not how it is done.

No. 3. When that is done Clamp the ring gear from turning and put a vice grip on the u-joint, and turn the drive shaft back, and forth, and with the Dial Indicator, see how much movement you have, in the pinion. .006, to .010 is normal, but there are other things that can change the norm, like a slightly warped ring gear, and that is not uncommon.

no. 4. So, if you have to go right or left, lets just say right .006 thousandths, I don't try to take it off the brass, but surface grind off the steel thrust washers, it is easy to do, and you can mic them, and they will be even, no high, and low spots. So what ever you take, or put on one side, you have to take, or put on the other side.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 03:57 am:

Thanks Guys.
Im using the dial indicator to set lash. Im wondering if the backing plate for the ring gear is warped. I get strange readings. I spent a long time setting up the dial so as not to have any needle movement up down or side to side. I like the idea of taking it down from the hard steel plates for sure.
What at home methods have you used. I dont have a lathe. Maybe a bench top belt sander? Im just looking for ideas. Thanks again. Ill have to post the new ones tomorrow but I have a link to the tear down thus far on photobucket. Take a look and cringe, its been a long road, but fun the whole time.

http://s1336.beta.photobucket.com/user/bfrench86/library/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 12:39 am:

Well something went wrong along the way. I need a new thrush washer. I moved the axle one too many times I believe. Ended up taking the washer down too far. I think the left side washer came loose and held the assembly up and threw off my measurements. I had it very close so i decided to attach the driveshaft to check how tight it felt and when I rechecked the right housing against the left I had a set down face to face and had a gap between the steel and bronze washer. Rookie mistake I guess. Parts on the way, Ill be back on it soon. Keep em Rolling


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 02:07 am:

If the gap is small you can put shim metal behind the washer between the housing.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 03:26 am:

Sadly the gap is too much for the shims. This axle has driven me nuts for quite a while now.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 12:54 pm:

Brandon,

When you test fit everything together, be sure that the steel & bronze washers are located over the pins. It's not uncommon for a steel washer to come out of place and lay on top of a pins, rather than over the pins. This throws everything off, as you can imagine. When you reassemble, "glue" all the washers in place with heavy grease to prevent them from falling out of place.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 04:34 pm:

Im certain thats what happened. I used a bunch of grease in the first place,, but the whole thing got moved a few times.I think when removing the right housing it probably pulled the diff assembly up enough then twisted when I lined it up for bolts. My neighbor and I worked on the T all day and everything else we did went off without a hitch so we kept working on stuff. We should have quit while we were ahead. Oh well. Try and fail, then try again and succeed. Keep em Rolling


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 09:21 pm:

Well Guys I now have a new bronze washer now. Im in the shop putting it back together. Im spending extra time pre-shimming the housings. I have 30 thousandths shimmed between the housings, tightened down the bolts and its still not moving by thumb. Im going by the club book and I have the bible. I want to know how much other have had to take down. This seems excessive if its more than 30. Thanks again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

Out here right now fellas, any feedback would be much appreciated. I Just put in 50 thousandths and i can now move the ring gear with my thumb


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 12:23 am:

Have you taken any off the thrust washers? Using a new ring and pinion I didn't have to, but it's usually necessary to make them a little smaller.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By kep NZ on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 02:38 am:

If you shave 50 thou' off the washer it might be ok now?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 02:52 am:

I have a new ring and pinion, Im gauging how much to take down the thrust washers. I placed that much in shims around the bolts. Tightened it down and checked to see if I could move it with my thumb with a little resistance. I new it was coming and I messed the first one up. So Im trying to be careful and find approx. what I need to remove. Thanks guys


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 02:53 am:

SO you know I gradually went up in shims to find that figure.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 09:57 pm:

So I started the thinning process with a table top belt sander. The belt i have at work is fine grit which i like but the old girl has no torque so i cant sand enough even if I bought a heavier belt. I have no time during business hours to get it to a machine shop. Im gone early and home late. Any tricks? What about a sanding pad on a drill press, or jig up a hand belt sander, etc. Also, when i checked my new steel washers they mic out at 2 to 4 thou difference in spots. Is this normal? IF so , how mach variance do you have on the final surface. Thanks guys.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 10:26 pm:

In this thread Stan Howe shows a method how to grind the thrust washers uniformly with a drill press: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/313568.html?1348686270


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 11:05 pm:

Thanks Roger! Ill have to set something up like that. I have access to a couple different sizes of drill press. I bet it goes pretty fast once you get the hang of it, and make one big mess.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 08:56 pm:

I got it! Last night after Rogers comment I kept at it. It now bolts together and moves by thumb smoothly with a little drag all the way around.
I know im not done with it. I still have to mount it so I wont celebrate yet, but Ive done that a couple times already as those who have followed this know. I couldnt have done it without the help from the forum. Many Thanks as always.
Ive spent a little over a year learning this car from the ground up and working on rolling down the road. That is a long way away though. But now that I can complete the axle and driveshaft, I can move on to the motor and trans work I created by looking for the problem. Lots to be done inside. I need a new low speed drum, bands with all the trimmings, mag ring for the trans, etc. For the motor it need to be bored .030 over, new alum pistons, rebabbitt the connecting rods, rebabbitt the main bearing caps and block, crank work an yada yada yada you guys know the drill.
Thanks again for all the help along the way. Ill keep the post coming as I delve into new sections of the build. This week coming up Ill start on the trans. Its already broken down so I have no excuse not to. Get the parts on the way and start reading up on the green book. Keep Em Rolling!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 09:02 pm:

I got it! Last night after Rogers comment I kept at it. It now bolts together and moves by thumb smoothly with a little drag all the way around.
I know im not done with it. I still have to mount it so I wont celebrate yet, but Ive done that a couple times already as those who have followed this know. I couldnt have done it without the help from the forum. Many Thanks as always.
Ive spent a little over a year learning this car from the ground up and working on rolling down the road. That is a long way away though. But now that I can complete the axle and driveshaft, I can move on to the motor and trans work I created by looking for the problem. Lots to be done inside. I need a new low speed drum, bands with all the trimmings, mag ring for the trans, etc. For the motor it need to be bored .030 over, new alum pistons, rebabbitt the connecting rods, rebabbitt the main bearing caps and block, crank work an yada yada yada you guys know the drill.
Thanks again for all the help along the way. Ill keep the post coming as I delve into new sections of the build. This week coming up Ill start on the trans. Its already broken down so I have no excuse not to. Get the parts on the way and start reading up on the green book. Keep Em Rolling!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 09:05 pm:

I got it! Last night after Rogers comment I kept at it. It now bolts together and moves by thumb smoothly with a little drag all the way around.

I know im not done with it. I still have to mount it so I wont celebrate yet, but Ive done that a couple times already as those who have followed this know. I couldnt have done it without the help from the forum. Many Thanks as always.

Ive spent a little over a year learning this car from the ground up and working on rolling down the road. That is a long way away though. But now that I can complete the axle and driveshaft, I can move on to the motor and trans work I created by looking for the problem. Lots to be done inside. I need a new low speed drum, bands with all the trimmings, mag ring for the trans, etc. For the motor it need to be bored .030 over, new alum pistons, rebabbitt the connecting rods, rebabbitt the main bearing caps and block, crank work an yada yada yada you guys know the drill.

Thanks again for all the help along the way. Ill keep the post coming as I delve into new sections of the build. This week coming up Ill start on the trans. Its already broken down so I have no excuse not to. Get the parts on the way and start reading up on the green book. Keep Em Rolling!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 09:10 pm:

There should be a post by me at 9:05pm,10/26 This is a test post because I cant find my original post. My thread wont jump up top either. Testing Testing


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 09:14 pm:

I got it! Last night after Rogers comment I kept at it. It now bolts together and moves by thumb smoothly with a little drag all the way around.
I know im not done with it. I still have to mount it so I wont celebrate yet, but Ive done that a couple times already as those who have followed this know. I couldnt have done it without the help from the forum. Many Thanks as always.
Ive spent a little over a year learning this car from the ground up and working on rolling down the road. That is a long way away though. But now that I can complete the axle and driveshaft, I can move on to the motor and trans work I created by looking for the problem. Lots to be done inside. I need a new low speed drum, bands with all the trimmings, mag ring for the trans, etc. For the motor it need to be bored .030 over, new alum pistons, rebabbitt the connecting rods, rebabbitt the main bearing caps and block, crank work an yada yada yada you guys know the drill.
Thanks again for all the help along the way. Ill keep the post coming as I delve into new sections of the build. This week coming up Ill start on the trans. Its already broken down so I have no excuse not to. Get the parts on the way and start reading up on the green book. Keep Em Rolling!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Brandon French-Tigard, Or on Saturday, October 27, 2012 - 12:19 am:

Sorry guys the computer I was wouldnt display the posting,thats why theres so many.


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