If you are new to this thread and want to see the progress from the beginning, see:
Today as promised, I started the trim rail. The material I used is 3/4" stainless steel marine 'rub rail'. It looks a lot like the 'cowl meets hood' surround trim you see on Modal A Fords & other cars from the late 20's.
Sorry a bit blurry
This stuff comes in widths up to 1" and numerous shapes (half round 3/4 round, etc). Some come with the correct screws others do not. I think it comes in un-drilled stock also. Just depends who has what at the marine supply dealer.
Sloppy drill holes I had to re-do (made in USA I might add).
Just laying things out
Coming around the bend
Notice the wide pinstripe tape.
This ref. line is really helpful when laying out your guide line so you have a true reference line (you don't want your main trim line off even 2mm after all that work to get the boat tail looking symmetrical!. Just as important,the white tape gives you a good visual point to peer down the screw hole and mark your drill holes on center as you move down bending & screwing six inches at a time.
I wanted aluminum but I bought stainless because its all the supplier had in his inventory. The cost of shipping a 12 foot strip (it normally only comes in 12' lengths) of the stuff by UPS was $70.00!!!! I decided to make do with the no ship cost, off- the-shelf stuff he had.
NOTE: This stuff is not cheap (I'd like to find a cheaper alternative)so be careful as you'll have an expensive mistake if you mess one up.
It came as no surprise that the SS is a real bi- - - when making sharp radius curves. As soon as I started to hit maximum radius I could see it was going to kink (right at the pre-drilled screw holes). Out came the torch, got it cherry red at the bend points and coaxed it around with a soft brass hammer followed by a rubber mallet. It still made a little tweak at the screw hole but a file, a little 180 & 220 grit sanding and some buffing took care of the tweaks and the discoloration. The SS will buff out to the point where it looks like chrome but I've elected to take it down a notch with 220 and leave it. The car is meant to have an aged patina when finished and a 'see your mug in the trim strip shine' doesn't look right to me(others may want that).
ALSO: I had to make larger counter sink holes, the sloppy pre-drilled holes left most of the screw heads proud on the first fitting.
Tomorrow I'll shape and attach the hood strip. It actually presents some greater challenges because it requires some slight compound curves that I know will give me headaches. Pics tomorrow will show you what I'm talking about. If anyone else has worked with this stuff and has some tips & tricks to share, PLEASE JUMP IN!
I guess the proper terminology is a, 'Cowl Band'.
Here's a picture of the 30-31 Model A Ford type from the Mac's catalog. I have made & mounted my Model T Speedster version already but it's a little scruffy looking from heating and forming so I didn't take a picture of it yet.
Great looking detail. I wonder how it would have done to bend it around prior to drilling holes in the most curved section?
James it's looking great.... I've been following posts 1and II its came a long...long ways sence the first pictures you sent me !
I really like the old boat tail bodies....
Restoration Supply has solid aluminum pieces in shapes like this, various widths, etc. That is what I used on my ABC. I had no problems bending it around the tail.
I like what I see!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
BUMP! (I think this is the first time for me to bump something up?)
Drive carefully, and enjoy, w2
Looking great James. Thank you for all the pictures.
James, would 6 foot lengths have worked? McMaster looks like it stocks 6 foot lengths at $145 per for 316SS. And best of all, you can will call it and pick up in Elmhurst, IL for no shipping charges (except your gas!).
Bob, That's pretty steep for a six ft. strip. I picked up my stainless 'rub bar' in Aurora for $58.00 per six foot length.
Yes, If I do it again, the pre-drilled holes are a major weak point when bending. The kinks mostly occur around the holes and they never seem to be in the spots you need them most.
That looks so fine! Yep Aluminum is the way I'll go next time. I'm going to dull the stainless down a bit as the chrome like shine will look out-of-place on the aged patina finish I plan to use.
Okay, Thanks to helpful forum members, we've relocated PART III so indulge me. I'm re-posting the most recent entry that ended up on part II.
I did a lot of little detail fixes that aren't worth showing to the body skins. I made headlamp brackets and restored a couple head lamp shells from a box of swap meet shells and rims. All were pretty bad but I made two decent ones. Wasn't till I mounted them and stepped back that I noticed one had a drooping eye. After taking some measurements, I discovered the stem on the driver's left headlamp was bent forward a good 3/4 inches. A vise, a metal template from the other headlamp stem, an acetylene torch and a pipe wrench made quick work of the leaning headlamp. I had a set of lenses that were covered in red over-spray from some many decades old respray that I've yet to clean.
QUESTION??? WHERE DO I GET THE ORIGINAL STYLE CASTLE NUTS? DO THE REGULAR BIG 3 DEALERS OFFER THEM? DIDN'T SEE THEM IN THE CATALOG. ALSO, IS THERE A FLAT OR SPLIT WASHER AT THE BOTTOM TOO?
I finally got the stainless trim to fit nice around the cowl. I hung the former ring and web lacing for the hood too. Firewall will eventually have a metal skin with some 'Model T-esque' bead design.
This is the drooping one after it was bent back to original position. Paint has not been color sanded or clear coated yet so it looks a little rough in photo.
She's starting to look like a Speedster finally! I like the profile & wish it was on a lowered chassis but first things first!
If the lamps look off in this pic, it's because of two things; I don't have the castle nuts to tighten them down and radiator shell is not secured, just held in place with a couple pins for the photo.
I still plan on covering the fire wall in metal.
When everything is bolted down in its proper alignment, the radiator to firewall brace is installed, the hood fits very nicely on this set-up.
That's it for this past weekend. Jimmy
P.S. Can anybody help me out (sell me) a used reflector for my headlamp? I only have one decent one. Need not be 'real nice' just not rusty. I hate to go on T-bay and pay double.
Example picture of a re-pop from Langs catalog.
Very nice! If you're planning on adding "skirts", hanging down from the lower body edge, it will have the affect of making the car look like it's sitting lower. Not as much daylight showing under the car that way.
Starting on the skirts this week (cardboard version first).
Cardboard skirts won't last long in the rain or when you wash your car! Use metal.
(as Senator Claghorn would say..."That's a joke son...that's a joke")
Very nice car and I am enjoying the progress listing and photos. Please keep them coming.
Neat car! I'm trying to replace the metal strip that ford used at the body joints for the rear panel no one makes a half round bar like it. i thought about using round bar and cutting it in half but you'd have to be pretty accurate. in some cases you can see where the bolt was. Does anyone know the assembly method ford used did the grind the heads of the bolts before or after assenbly? my roadster ones are twisted like pretzels and I don't think heating and bending will bring them back. They're not available aftermarket.
Try TACOMETALS.com Tambien! troop
TACOMETALS is where my rub bar was ordered from. You can find a lot of their products sold at many Marine Supply Stores.
Also try; metalsupermarkets.com they are all over the country and ship or will call. They will bend, cut or do about anything for you to most any metal you order(for an extra price).
FRIDAY - PAPER DOLLS BEFORE CARDBOARD
Okay, some may find this a silly exercise. I'm the type that sometimes has to see it in 3D before I can visualize what I want. I made this little paper cut out last night while watching TV. It helped me see that I need to make relief cuts on my frame skirt's top sections to make the two small bends front and back. I figure I'll just tack weld the underside of the two angle cuts. That should also allow for a gentle bend on the vertical slab sides. I assume that's how it's done.
The other reason for the silly paper model is that I only have enough template cardboard material to make one set of scale skirts.
YOUTH PROJECT -FIRST FITTING. YEAR/PEOPLE UNKNOWN
I can't tell you who these folks are. There was a start-to-finish thread of this project on-line some years ago. I saved the pics but can't tell you any more about it. I don't see bends in this skirt but the body may have a 'High Boy' design with a tighter cabin and it's sitting flush on the frame.Not sure. Jimmy
Suggestions?Below is a 'crude' sketch of the floor that the skirts should follow that shows the two bend points.
the picture is one of the Rockford Chapter building the speedster project that was raffled off for the youth scholarship a few years ago
I could still use a headlamp reflector. I've placed bids on two on T-bay, only to be snipped away for a dollar more at the end (I hate that!)
I started with a whole box of old T headlamps & their parts but somehow only one reflector to be had. Jimmy
If it's any help to you at all, here are some photos of my car showing the skirts pretty well. I really only made one bend, as the skirts go forward to meet the bottom corners of the radiator shell. Going backwards, I stayed with a straight line out to the frame rear cross member. I've seen some skirts with too many zig-zag bands all the way down their length.
(By the way, I was able to escape from the "mountain folk")
Tim wanfalt in the picture, panels were made by Paul Larson, the man who bought the speedster buisnes from me has the plans now, he is in New York, contact me for his information, Bob
Thank you! That's the first time I've seen your Speedster. I just love it! I opted for the wider two passenger design so the body and tail have less of a taper to the tail behind the seat.
Did you mount your step plates directly to the frame without the need of a bracket or spacer?
Below are two pics from the 2004 Youth Project that show a bracket to support the Faultless foot step on a wide body design (like mine). Frankly, I prefer the slimmer style racing body with the hand brake outside such as yours but my wife & daughter wanted a true two-seater they could ride in comfortably.
Youth project- nicely fabricated brace
Same brace mounted to top & bottom sides of the frame's C-channel. It must require a little routing or chisel work to the floor's top underside for this set up.
Replacement head light reflectors resolved. Thank you B.B. for the kind assistance.
What a great community you 'T' folks are.
Hey! Here's an interesting body. Caption said; 'Original Morton & Brett body'.
I found this on the H.A.M.M. forum's archives.
I assume that hole in the tail is an exhaust port. Frame covers appear to be welded directly to the body on this one.
After enlarging this photo, it appears that the tail section may be four welded sections of sheet metal rather than two big ones most use.
That's all I can tell you about it. In the words of Sargent Schultz, "I know nothing".
I think that is the first time I have seen a picture of your speedster. It looks good! But, then, I have always been partial to good boat-tails.
Glad your reflector issue is solved. I almost bid on some awhile back. But I didn't want you and I stepping on each other and running the price up. About half the things I bid on, I miss by a dollar. I figure I am one of the ones driving prices up for somebody. I sometimes wish I could know who else is waiting for that last half hour to bid so I could get out of their way (if I wanted to).
I haven't been able to decide whether to put frame skirts on my car or not. I have seen original photos of boat-tails both ways. One of my best friends says I should add them. I tend to like the long sleek look it has without. Original advertisements usually show boat-tails with the skirts.
Drive carefully, and wear a funny hat! W2
The body is actually for 2 people, but not really for 2 people as big as me.
The step plates have long bolts that go through the step, the skirt, and into the frame. There are pipes that slip over the bolts and act as spacers between the frame & step and also lend some support. It's been so long since I've done them that I don't recall if there's any more to it than that.
The stick would normally fit inside the body, if my big legs and feet didn't take up so much room already. Also, had to extend the steering column housing, (but not the shaft), an extra 6" to get my knees under the steering wheel.
I made a mistake. The stick quadrant extension actually has the long bolts with pipes slid over them, as I described above. The steps are mounted to angle brackets that bolt through the body sills and through the steps. Sorry, like I said, it's been a while.
Thanks for that update Jerry. I'll figure something similar out. The bracket in the photos I posted is nice and certainly sturdy but a lot of work to make. I fancy something simpler.
Wayne; Regarding those skirts. I think it depends on if you retain a stock chassis or not. The body looks so high off the ground on a stock chassis and the skirts do indeed bring it down lower visually. On a lowered chassis it's not so apparent.I have a DVD with hundreds of examples (brochures) for original speedster/raceabout kits from 1920's-30's. Most have the skirts or offer them as optional equipment.
Wayne, here's an alternate fender version without skirts. Got wood? This is where I got the idea for the 'Frenched' tail lights, nice isn't it?
P.S. Wayne, did you receive my P.M. from last night?
I just wanted to thank James for his help with my speedster build (which I am starting from scratch again). I am look forward to seeing how James finishes the car.
Off topic a little:
Does anyone know the owner of this speedster?
No idea, but I'm guessing that slick radiator shroud might be fiberglass.
I just checked. Yes I did.
Drive carefully, and wear a funny hat! W2
MERRY CHRISTMAS & A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!
I WANTED TO THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT & ALL THE GREAT INFO AND TIPS CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD DURING THE 2012 YEAR.
STAND BY IN 2013 FOR PART IV (THE PROGRESS OF THIS THREAD WILL CONTINUE.)
No idea where this photo came from but it's keeping with the season.
Cheers! Jim Starkey- (Jimmy to all my T friends)
I believe this is the snow person . . .
The record for the world's largest snowman was set in 2008 in Bethel, Maine.
The snow-woman stood 122 feet 1 inch (37.21 m) in height.
Merry Christmas, Jimmy, and all!
(And I look forward to your updates after the New Year!)