More Q,s guys ,,sorry

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: More Q,s guys ,,sorry
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 01:06 pm:

sorry for all the questions but still learning have a couple books,anyway with a water pump how tight should the belt be,does it just run against the "idler" guide or is something missing. also when it got hot yesterday water was dripping out of the, I think the bottom center rivet on the upper neck for a long time,sure hope it is not time for a new radiator,but if so will bit it and order one aghhh!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:25 pm:

well just got back from about a 3-1/2-4 mile run up two good inclines ran great but started spuwing water out from around the top radiator hose about the last block from home.used a flush earlier,did not get any crud out got home just did not feel hot to me,but think maybe lost a very small amount of power on last hill.after it cools gonna check if there is a stat,if there is will take it out. till next message,gonna go learn some more


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Gruber- Spanaway, Wash. on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:34 pm:

You might have too much water in it.
It'll find it's own level...probably about a half inch over the radiator tubes.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:50 pm:

ok i'll leave it alone and go drive it again as of now it is not above to tubes, looks like the flush did some good looks cleaner top of tubes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 04:58 pm:

You also might want to run a thin,straightened coathanger wire thru the overflow tube. You can see this when you remove the Rad.cap. I had water shooting out a stream from a leak in my rad. If it is plugged up, pressure will build and shoot stuff out. You do not want pressure. Clear that tube.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stephen D Heatherly on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 05:03 pm:

The belt should be just tight enough to run the pump and fan without slipping. If the belt is slipping then the pump will restrict water movement instead of helping it. If your radiator is original then most likely it needs to be replaced. With a good radiator you do not need a pump.

Stephen


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 05:15 pm:

Ronnie, the cooling system in a Model T is not designed for a water pump. Henry Ford designed to cool using thermal siphoning. This type of cooling was extremely popular in the 1920's and into the 1930's. It was used on many different kinds of tractors, trucks and cars. I own two Model T's. I bought both of them with water pumps on them. I took the water pumps off and tossed them. This summer I drove them in 100 degree heat up and down hills for miles at a time. Neither car has overheated yet. As well there are several people on this forum that run there cars using thermal siphoning without fans on there cars. There are people in the Model T club I belong too that have put water pumps back on their cars to get them to run hotter because it provides a restriction in the cooling system. I'm not suggesting you throw the water pump away but it's worth considering taking the water pump off, buy a new inlet goose neck to replace it and a new fan belt. If you think you need the water pump back on (which you more than likely won't) then you've still got it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 05:53 pm:

ok i am pulling the rad tomorrow and ordering new hoses and water pipe,loosened belt pump feels stiff to turn by hand,so it is off of there., take rad to town have it checked and cleaned,the overflow is blocked feels as if hitting something solid about 3" in from top cannot find a bottom outlet.looks like a new rad"early xmas"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 05:58 pm:

You don't necessarily need a new radiator if you can get that one cleaned out and it doesn't leak. My '26 sedan is running a radiator from 1926. As long as you've got that radiator and those hose and water pump out of the way, take a water hose and flush some crap out of the engine. And if you look around on the forum here you'll find a thread that was put together about 2 months ago that showed a way to flush the engine using water and air pressure. If I remember correctly Steve Jelf became involved with the thread.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 09:55 pm:

sitting here reading all this and it just dawned on me just what george said, the overflow is open to the atmosphere so the radiator is not pressurized,so my overflow is VERY plugged up, so engine gets hot ,water has no place to go ,,so out the loosest place it can find.duhhh,,now if i can get something thru it before pulling it all apart


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By keith g barrier on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:01 pm:

Ronnie, If you do take it to a radiator shop, make sure to tell them NOT to pressure test it. Most shops now know little or nothing about these old radiators. KB


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:35 pm:

As Mike and Stephen pointed out, the T was built to run without a water pump. You find a pump on a T for a couple of reasons. One may be that somebody assumed all water-cooled cars should have one. The more common reason is that the pump was applied as a Band-aid instead of fixing the cause of overheating. There are two reasons I know of for the cooling system to fail. The first, you can fix. That's a buildup of crust and crud in the water passages and radiator. You fix it by cleaning out the crust and crud. The second, you can fix too. Decades of vibration cause the radiator fins to lose contact with the tubes, so they fail to carry away the heat in the coolant. No amount of cleaning will remedy this. You fix it by buying a new radiator.

Here's a long discussion of cooling system flushing, including links to videos: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/285681.html.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, October 14, 2012 - 10:40 pm:

Thanks Steve, I was hoping you'd chime in. I remembered there was a thread but I wasn't sure where to look for it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 01:36 am:

Ronnie, when I had a leak in rad. I put stop'em stuff in it. Took me several days to figure out that maybe some of them little pellets might have gone into the overflow tube. Cleared it with the thinnest coat hanger wire I could find. That stopped the squirt, but not the leak, have since plugged the leak but have a little weeping in another area.
Like others, I'd take off the water pump and see how it behaves. Remove thermostat too, if so equipped. Then report back on results.
George n L.A.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Monday, October 15, 2012 - 09:45 pm:

Ronnie ..

Best of luck with your 'water' project!

If the overflow tube is stuck 3" from the top, try pushing your cleaner wire UP from the bottom.

When I got Dad's T after he passed, I remember he always had problems with it 'overheating'. Unfortunately, he wasn't 'on' the Internet, and didn't have all these fine forum folks to help out! I found the belt constantly coming off after a few miles. I finally saw that the Berg pump pulley was barely turning. ONce I got it freed up, and lubed, properly, no more belt flinging!

I found out about the rad needing to find it's 'own' water level, from folks here. I also said what ta heck .. what do I have to loose by pulling the pump, and putting in a few new hoses .. so I did. Then, gee ... I need a different fan belt, now because it doesn't need to go around the water pump. Then I found my pully and fan were wrong, for the year! geesh! So, I pulled the fan assymbly off. Then I'm thinkin' again ... what ta heck .. run it without a fan!

So, I've been runing for almost 2 months with no water pump AND no fan, just fine. Now, I wouldn't do this in summer, during a parade .. but I should have a proper belt and fan assymbly, by then!

Anyone wanna buy a nice Berg water pump? :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 07:36 am:

have looked and looked at the bottom for the overflow tube, must be gittin old and need new glasses ,but i can't find it just where should it be at.still gonna pull and really clean it this sat. flush and clean block and rad several times pull pump and clean and lube it,just don't feel right to me.ordered new hoses and neck pipe to take it off anyway. still havin' fun


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ronnie Wehba on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 07:18 pm:

ok found it i thought it was on the bottom of the radiator, it had been pinched closed ,i got it open, put about 1/2 cup dawn dish soap in and water,xin' to go drive it get it heated up and let sit overnite.no it can breath hoping this cures it


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John F. Regan on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 10:05 am:

Ronnie:

If you swap out the hoses, pay attention to the lowest hose that fastens to the radiator and metal tube. That hose typically is supplied too long and if you install it full length your timer rod will pass under it and that will limit your timer rod travel when you operate the advance lever on the steering column. The timer rod should only pass under the metal tube during the full operational travel of the timer lever. Many cars have this issue and then people mistakenly bend the lever to clear the hose and that starts you off in the wrong direction as far as setting the timing and gaining proper timer rod clearance. The timer rod from new should only need bending in the large arc that comprises the bend above the timer at the timer end of the rod. Timing adjustment should only require a bend to open or close this arc a bit to thus lengthen or shorten the timer rod. You might find you need to shorten the lower hose anywhere from 1/2" to 1" to get it and the clamp out of the way of the timer rod which needs to pass under the metal tube part of the water supply path and not under the hose and clamp at that end of the water connection.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 10:43 pm:

John, your post is interesting. I've replaced the waterpumps on both my T's with the hose setup that belonged on them. I threw the waterpumps in the scrap. I didn't have to cut the lower hose on either car. I've watched both of them through the full travel of the timing rods and have no interference. So why would mine be different? Now I'm worried I'm missing something.


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