Ruckstell replacements parts question

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Ruckstell replacements parts question
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 10:50 am:

As I've been measuring the parts on the Ruckstell, I'm finding that most are slightly worn beyond what the Chaffin manual states for acceptable wear. In addition, one of the planetary gear pins sheared in half and the hole to P160 (differential housing) was eggshaped. I'm tight on funds, so it's either going to be one of two things: Save up and buy new or try to purchase good used parts. Here are a couple of questions:

1) How is the quality of the new repro parts? Is it advisable to go new or get good used parts?
2) Is it better to rebush the P160 or purchase new?
3) Is it wise to reuse the ring gear bolts if the threads are good or a safer bet to buy all brand new ones?
4) The manual says that P145 (steel thrust plate with the six holes) should be close to a press fit. Does that mean tight enough that it will stay attached if turned upside down? If so, I need to replace mine.

I'll post more questions the further I dig into things. Thanks!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 11:13 am:

Glenn Chaffin is a Ruckstell expert, and he is the one who has the new parts manufactured. Follow his instructions for best results. If you try to match new with used parts, or used parts from one axle with used parts from another axle, you might get success for a short time, but you also risk having the shift go into neutral when you need the compression of the engine to keep you from rolling.

It is best to use the tolerances given in the manual to make your decision whether to replace the parts.

That is my opinion.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 11:35 am:

1. Used parts with no wear are virtually impossible to find. The ones that show up on ebay are almost always parts that were replaced in somebody's rebuild. New parts are better made than the old ones were. I've rebuilt a bunch of Ruckstells and the only issue I've found with the new ones is that is if you have very good axle gears and very good pinion gears you may have to machine the axle carrier (P160) for more clearance.

2. If the P160 is good other than the pin holes being worn there is no reason to replace it. They are easily bushed. Nearly every one is worn in the holes where the axles gears run and most are badly scored inside. You can bush the holes if you have a lathe and want to fool with it. The internal scoring can be machined away and a washer machined to fit for the clearance. I replace them instead of doing that, usually.

3. Many people reuse the bolts. I've reused some, the best of the used ones I have, but not many. Usually several of them have wear on the shank where the step is or the threads are bad. I throw the bad ones out rather than ebaying them because of the safety hazard of using bad ones and having them break and losing your brakes. If your peace of mind is worth less than $55 bucks, use the old ones. If it's more, use new ones that fit correctly, aren't stretched, have good threads and are a known hardness.

4. The main issue with the P145 is the surface where it runs against the bronze thrust plate. It is usually pretty worn. The holes for the pinion pins have a weenie bit of clearance but the holes for the carrier pins should be such that the plate is at least a hand push to install and a light tap to get off. It it falls off when you turn the P160 upside down I'd replace it.

Ruckstells are not cheap to rebuild. MOST of the time it is not a lot more expensive to buy a new kit than it is to replace everything worn in an old one. As many as I have gone through I still know of no way to buy an old one and know how good or bad it is without tearing it down. I bought two at the Lethbridege swap meet a couple years ago, $1700 for two of them, both rusty inside, one housing had a piece broken out that had been brazed in and was covered with old grease, the other housing had a dent in it and was bent, both worn to the point where the only good things I got out of them were the shift locks--which still needed rebuilding. All the rest of the parts went in the iron pile -- money down the drain.

I've bought others that were virtually perfect, but not many. Most need a lot of work and money and a LOT of them have bent housings.

I have a new one I am putting together for a guy down south, have good parts enough for a nice one for me, all used stuff I have ended up with over the years, and boxes and shelves and drawers full of worn and worn out parts. My winter project -- clean 'em up and get 'em gone.

Good luck on the project, they are not a complicated deal, take your time and it will work when you get it together. Like a lot of projects, having a good lathe to work on this is a real help. Check the housings for alignment. Not one in five is straight. Search the old threads for how to do it. Take your time, after 67 rebuilds it still takes me a couple days at a minimum to do one.

All parts are manufactured in the USA by Chaffins in California. Parts sold by the other suppliers all come from Chaffin. Just as well buy them from him. I find that Snyder's has a good inventory and that they sometimes have parts Chaffin is out of. Langs carry a wider selection as Snyders do not carry every part. I never buy anything from the other suppliers so I don't know what they carry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 11:45 am:

There were a lot of good original Ruckstell parts at Hershey. The prices were high, but the parts were very nice.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Stan Howe Helena, Montana on Tuesday, October 16, 2012 - 11:50 am:

If you are reusing the old ring and pinion, run a good tap through the threaded holes before you put those new ring bolts in.

The most critical clearances are: The fit of the sun gear, the pinion gears and the outer or moon gear. The sun gear fjust FLOATS in the center of the pinions when the Ruckstell is not engaged. If they are worn or the other gears are worn much at all it will be hard to shift or possibly will not engage all the way. The clutch gear slides through the bronze plate and the thrust plate and has to pick up the teeth in the sun gear, which engages the planetaries or pinion gears to make the whole thing work. If those gears, or the bronze plate, or the thrust plate, or the clutch gears are worn much, it will not pick up the sun gear and engage the planetaries to shift into Ruckstell (or Ruckstell low as some call it) ALLLLLLLL of those parts have to line up just right. If the thrust surface on the outer edge of the bronze plate where the thrust fits in is not within .010, if the clutch gear is worn, if the splines in the bronze plate or on the clutch gear are worn much at all it will not shift right. The first thing anybody should do before they work on a Ruckstell is turn it over by hand a bunch of times seeing how it works. The clearances are pretty critical and it is amazing that they work as well as they do considering how worn out a lot of them are.

If you do have a lathe, you can machine on the bronze plate and fit a ring that will reduce the diameter, then machine it to fit your thrust plate. I've done several of those if the rest of the plate was good to go. Generally speaking though, if the bronze plate is worn enough to need that, the flat thrust surface is also worn and the splines for the clutch gear will also be worn. Many of them are also bent inward and while I suppose they can be pressed back into alignment, I find that my time is worth something, too, and I nearly always replace the bronze plate as a matter of course rather than trying to save a worn out part.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Glen Chaffin on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 10:33 pm:

Listen to Stan. He has a lot of experience as do we. Rebuilding a Ruckstell is not difficult. Simply follow the instructions in my book. But do not jump around. Start at the beginning and perform the steps in order. The most important step is checking the two positions of the P146 Sliding Clutch Gear. Stan, I have a set of original Ford Spider Gears that are oversized. I bought them from Bob's years ago when he purchased all of the NOS parts out of Chicago. They will not fit in the Ruckstell and I don't know why they made them oversize? Weird but interesting.


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