1906? 35 HP Ford - What is it?

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: 1906? 35 HP Ford - What is it?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 05:21 am:

I have been searching through old NZ papers again and come across this 35 HP Ford. Is it a Ford and if so what model? Paper date is March 1906. The paper seems to make no reference to the car other than the picture title saying it is a 35 HP Ford Touring car




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 05:41 am:


Alex,

The photo above and information below is from Bruce's on-line encyclopedia "Cars befor the T" at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/earlyfds.htm . It says:

Model B
The Model B was a four-cylinder touring car.
First sale October 20, 1904. Last sale June 30, 1906.* Approximately 500 were made, beginning with serial number one.

Horsepower 24
Bore/Stoke 4-1/4 by 5 inches
Cylinders 4
Wheelbase 92 inches
Tread 55-1/2 inches
Price $2000. Gas lamps extra

Basically it appears to be the same car except the one in NZ had running boards fitted. Note Canada fitted running boards to the Model C before Ford USA did so they may have done that to the B or the owner or dealer may have done that. Also the HP is listed differently – but that could be a type-o or misinformation or something else.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 06:17 am:

Thanks for the great infromation as usual. Yes it was the HP rating that I could not match to the Model B - but this would be the most serious contender.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 07:06 am:

Alex,

Change 1: After a cup of caffeine and a shower, I do not think it is a Ford Model B. The B front springs were NOT mounted to a frame horn or extension as the one in the newspaper. They were fitted to the front of the square frame and the radiator was further towards the front etc.

That frame horn/extension should help narrow down the other possibilities.

Respectfully corrected,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 07:09 am:

The front frame ends and springs doesn't match either, so there might be a chance the NZ newspaper editor mixed up the then rather unknown overseas auto producers he got publicity photos from? Any other new autos in that paper or in the preceding or following issues?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 09:06 am:

Alex,

I'd say it was an early artist rendering for the Model K. The horsepower is incorrect, but closer to K 40 hp than any other Ford. The car has a similar appearance to to the 06 K (front springs, plow share style front fenders with with running boards. The raised step at the rear of the running board is interesting (to clear rear springs). Early artist depictions of Fords were not always too accurate. See the Ford ad below, the Model N drawing has many differences from the the car that eventually left the market (and some differences with the Model K drawing).

Also, we know the first Models Ks have been displayed at several auto shows and are about to be delivered to the market by the time this ad appeared.

However, it wouldn't be the first time a Ford car was advertised that never made it to production. See the "Ford Model H" ad in the second attachment.




Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Paulsen on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 09:44 am:

I believe it is a Lozier. In fact, I did a quick online search and came up with what appears to be the same photo, labeled as a 1905 Lozier.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 10:21 am:

Chris,

I think you've got it! Good job.

Working on any "exotic" cars at the college now?

Rob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roger Karlsson, southern Sweden on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 10:38 am:

Spot on, Chris :-)
the 1906 Lozier Type C was indeed rated at 35 hp:
lozier ad
They were expensive quality cars made in Detroit from 1900 to 1915; "One of Lozier’s big selling points was the use of ball bearings instead of bushings or plain bearings, as they are called, in the construction of the chassis and engine. Head engineer John G. Perrin even used ball bearing for the main bearings in the engine."

from The Old Motor, http://theoldmotor.com/?tag=lozier


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 12:15 pm:

This brings to mind a question that I'm sure many of us have: what happened to the models in-between those put into productionie, the Model D, G, H, I, etc.? Were sketches made? Drafts? Is this information in the Ford archives?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 02:23 pm:

Chris,

That Lozier almost looks like the same image!

Thanks. Editor must not have been paying very much attention that day


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Chris Paulsen on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 02:36 pm:

Alex, I believe it is the same image. I'd say someone got their labels or captions mixed up.

Rob, Lots of fun projects here at the college-still no Model K's, but early stuff includes a 1908 Holsman, 1916 Pierce-Arrow Model 66, 1917 Willys-Knight. Not sure if they're exotic, but certainly interesting and fun!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rob Heyen - Nebraska on Wednesday, October 17, 2012 - 03:14 pm:

Jim,

There is a six cylinder Ford that was on an extended NRS chassis that has been called "Model J". I was just speaking with the owner at Hershey, and he toured with it a few weeks ago. Some call the 1904 Delivery car Model E, but I've not seen any Ford info designating it with a letter (on a Model C chassis.

There was also an air cooled four cylinder car shown by Ford at a 1904 auto show, but no model letter was given (this was a report in an automotive journal).

Lots of "mysteries" about the models built prior to the Model T. Below are a few bits and pieces:

Rob

This is an article from "The Automobile", February 1904. The engine is called a 15 hp air cooled four cylinder. The Model B, brought later in 04, had a 24 hp water cooled engine. The article also mentions a "handsome closed coupe" body.




The following classified ad shows three Fords for sale, a 4 cyl touring for $800, 4 cyl runabout for $650, and 4 cyl cab for $1,000, all 20 hp. This is October 1907, a full yea before the Model T appears! These cars all have 97 inch wheelbases. The NRS, by the leading selling cars in he US, are all 84 in wheelbase and 15-18 hp.

So, are some of these cars the "missing alphabet" cars that made it to showrooms, but apparently not to production?



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By John Stokes on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 05:03 am:

Alex,

I've found absolutely no references to any Model B Fords coming to New Zealand.

The first Ford that Meadows bought in was a Model C (dear to your heart!) and then he formed the Automobile Co of NZ, as the Ford agents, in 1906. However, there may have been an example imported privately before or maybe later. But I've found no Model B evidence at all.

I think I recall seeing that picture, labelled as a Ford, but it gave the impression of being a filler in the paper, as there was no other reference to what it was all about? Was there more elaboration in what you found?

Best wishes,
John Stokes


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Alex Brown on Thursday, October 18, 2012 - 05:09 am:

John - yes a filler in the "Progress 1906" I think you saw the same article as me?


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration