I have a set of Simplex wire wheels in need of restoration, and need some help/guidance, as I can't figure out how the hubs come apart. I don't want to damage them, just disassemble them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
You already have the hubs apart. The hub is on the axle shaft for rears and on the spindle with bearings for fronts. The upper picture is of the inside of the wheel and hubcap. An thinking that the first thing to do is drive out the three small rivets that hold the name plate on. They were put on from the outside and you can see the heads on the outside are larger than the ends sticking thru inside. The inside is usually bent over or peened. Clean off the bit sticking thru on the inside and drive out the rivets from inside out. With the emblem now removed you should see the ends of the 2 larger rivets holding the 2 bars that go thru the hubcap to hold it captive in the wheel. from the outside drive or drill them out and the 2 bars should come loose freeing up the cap out of the wheel.
Good luck
David,
I didn’t see very much information on Spranger wire wheels.
A couple of postings mention them see : http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/37605.html the following was posted:
By Stan Howe on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 07:35 pm:
T wires basically come in two sizes, 30 x 3 1/2 or 440:21. The 30 inch were all aftermarket. Ford wire wheels were all 440:21.
There were two types of 30 inch, plus some subcategories. 1. Tire mounted directly on wheel, no demountable rim. 2. Tire mounted on demountable rim. Then there are two major types of hubs: 1. Wire wheel hub mounted to existing Model T hub, usually by removing the outer plate and adding six drive stubs that bolt into the six holes that held the wooden spokes in place--held on by a large cap. This continues to use the existing Ford bearings for the front. One brand of this type is Pasco. 2. Hubs with their own method of attaching to the spindle and axle. IE: A new hub that fits the Ford axles and may or may not be demountable from the hub but usually is. This would be the Buffalo, Spranger, Houk, etc., type of hub. One common problem with these hubs is that the recess holding the bearing may have worn larger or out of round, requiring machine work to repair it for use.
Based on that it sounds like some of the Spranger wheels may not be designed to be removed from the hub. Below is an advertisement for Spranger wire wheels from page 25 of the Jul-Aug 1980 Vintage Ford.
And at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/28735.html
By Tim Moore on Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 03:31 am: am trying to revive a set of Spranger wheels. Both Buffalo sets are snap ring and the Spranger are demountables.
By johnd on Tuesday, October 09, 2007 - 10:48 am: …… set Of SPRANGERS, which are wired similar to HAYES, no separate hubs, ……
Hopefully others with more experience with those wheels will chime in. In the meantime would you please post a photo and/or describe if your wheels have the demountable rim as shown in the advertisement above or if the rim is permanent to the wheel?
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Hap,
Good info on Spranger wire wheels but this is a Simplex brand wire wheel!
Layden,
Could those wheels be off a Simplex automobile? What wheels would they be, then?
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Layden,
Thanks! I need to read more carefully -- well probably I need to make sure I'm reading through the correct trifocal len. Glasses I don't need no stinking glasses ... well maybe I do....
Again thanks for setting me straight.
Respectfully noted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Thanks to all who've posted on this. These are off a 1919 Speedster I'm working on getting back on the road after being disassembled in 1979 (see profile for pic of the car back in the late 50s).
Layden; you're right - I should have said the hub caps, not the hubs. I have the emblem off on one wheel, and the ends of the two larger rivets are accessible, as you thought. I'll try driving them out and will let you know how it works. Thanks again for the advice!
Hap,
"To err is human, to forgive divine."
You are forgiven.
Wayne,
Way too small for a Simplex automobile. For wire wheels they usually used Rudge-Whitworth Wire Wheels.
As it says on the hubcap Simplex Wire Wheel Co.
Simplex – yes, I see that now….
You may also want to contact some other Simplex wheel owners – see:
Bob Gruber – wheels at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/115112.html click on his name to send him a private message (PM).
At: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/179374/188881.html?1297200108
By mike husted on Wednesday, February 09, 2011 - 10:00 pm:
…… It has taken me at least 35 years to learn the name Simplex wheel with a picture. I always wondered what they were now I know, I have 2. This came out of the last article.
Be sure to see also the reprint/scan of the article from the Vintage Ford – scroll down to page 26 at the North West Vintage Speedster site see: http://www.nwvs.org/Technical/MTFCA/Articles/1504WireWheels.pdf
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
I would've chimed in but mine are too screwed up to get the wheels off the hubs so I'm not much help.
I treat them like non-demountables.
Well, I drilled out the large rivets, as advised. But the brass hub nut is held in the wheel with a steel lock ring on the outside (see the photo above). The hub nut (cap) is on some type of ratchet inside the wheel, which just ratchets around. That outside rung has to be removed for the hub cap to come off.
In the pic of the outside of the wheel, you can see there's a small cut-out in the lock ring; there's also one on the opposite side of the (two total). I'm wondering if this allows the ring to be "un-screwed" from the wheel? Or are they for lubrication? Any thoughts?
Also, I emailed Doug Langevin in Oregon, who wrote the original article on wire wheels in 1980. Haven't heard back from him.
Thanks.
Well, I still haven't heard back from Doug. Any other ideas on how to get the steel lock-ring off? Other than it being threaded, I don't see any other way it would be removed? Thanks again to all.
David
The ring slots sean to have a flat side and a slotted side. Check to see if the other hub slots are opposite design. This would indicate to me that there threaded Rt. and Left.
Soak with penetrating oils and use a flat punch and tap one way or the other to see if you can get any movement, if so the other one might go the other way. Hope this might help. Just an idea from a shade tree tinker.
Bob
Looks like that ring around the hexed cap threads off. Study the following:
http://www.google.com/patents/US1417119?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false
Looks like Jerry nailed it for you. Retainer is left hand threaded. Looks like someone tried to loosen it with a chisel.
You may need a lot of penetrating oil and some time for it to soak in.
Did you get them apart ??????
Bob
I was out of town most of this week and just got back. Again, I thank everyone who posted for your help. Congrats to Jerry! Gotta tell me how you found the patent drawings (?). All the internet searches I did for Simplex wire wheels turned up diddly.
I'll give the caps a good soak with penetrating oil and give the left-hand threads a try and let you all know.
Well, after two days soaking in penetrating oil, not much progress. I can wiggle one of the retaining rings a little, but when I try to use a flat-end punch to drive them, no movement. Don't want to damage the notches more than they are already, so I might be stuck. A spanner wrench of the right size (to fit the notches) might help, but I think these things are rusted-up to tight.
I'm thinking, since the hub caps are all operational, with no apparent mechanical problems internally, I can tape-off the seams to keep particles out and go ahead and have them media-blasted.
Any thought on this?
Thanks.
Heat is the secret. Gently heat up the rings and let them cool again, By heating, you expand the steel, often breaking the rust grip thats formed. Most people make the mistake of heating something up and trying to break it free while its still hot. Heat, let cool, heat, let cool, tap tap tap.
I like to heat things like this with a heat gun.
I use an old Wagner power stripper but there are others.
You can get it pretty darned hot without damage.
I'll give it a try and will let you know how it goes. Thanks!
Well, I tried the heat, cool, heat, cool method. Still no luck. Talked with a guy from Dayton Wire Wheel; seems helpful. Dropped off one wheel to see what he can do with it, as I live about 15 minutes from their location. I'll let you all know what I hear.
Thanks again for all the input.
I heard back from Dayton Wire Wheel; they fabricated a special tool (wrench) to fit the rectangular notches in the lock-ring and were able to remove the hub cap. I think I'll have them do a basic rebuild on the wheels: disassemble, re-true, new spokes and nips. Cost seems very reasonable for this basic service.
I'll then decide on painting or powder-coating. No need for show-quality finish, just something that looks decent. Anyone care to chime-in on this? I've read the other posts, so I'm familiar with the paint v. powder-coat debate on wire wheels...