OT --2004 Toyota winshield wiper problem-dealer NO help!

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: OT --2004 Toyota winshield wiper problem-dealer NO help!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 02:39 pm:

I[m posting my friend here, mostly to vent.
My everyday truck windshield wipers on work on high speed, and don't "park" when turned off. OK, must be the switch--as motor tests fine following the Service Manual and using jumper wires. New switch (mail order around $130). Hmm no fixie! I post here and find where the Toyota manual is online. Hmm, testing again. Seems like the electrical signal is not getting to the motor--chase down all (I think!) junction 'boxes' -- no fix. OK, first buy rebuilt motor from local parts house--looks like a POS and no attached lever to run the linkage AND no instruction on how to 'time' the lever so it will park the wipers. I test plug it in--no low speed, so return POS. I then go to dealer, maybe there's a noted history here (after trying the online Toyota chat groups with no help). $96 later the guys says, "you need a new motor!" I ask him, "Did you check to see if the motor is getting the signal, as I have tested the motor and it functions correctly." "Yes, it's getting the signal, you need a new motor!" Their price, about 200+ installed. Mail order Price $140 with shipping.
Today I put on the new motor--which came with the lever AND the mounting pads & bolts-NICE!
No low speed, no park--no change!! AAAUGH!! I am going to the dealer Monday and COMPLAIN! BTW, it's supposed to start raining Sunday night.
While my truck was at the dealer, he also noted I needed new spark plugs and injectors cleaned--about $400 worth of work. Hmm, $12 for plugs at parts house, one hour to R&R--including figuring out how to remove air ram & finding the right tools. $10 for injector cleaner in gas.
HOW do these guys look at themselves in the mirror? OH, and them missed the cracked exhaust pipe I knew about and had fixed for $80 by a "gypo shop" where the guys really know what they are doing.
OK, I've vented--but I still don't have good wipers!
T'hanks Guys!
David D.
PS T content--I use the truck to go get T parts!
:-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob McDonald-Federal Way, Wa. on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 02:45 pm:

Dave
Only drive it when it's not raining and don't let him move to Seattle. Grin

Bob


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 03:18 pm:

Take it to Japan. They will fix it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 03:21 pm:

Better yet,drive it there.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dick Missett Wyoming, PA (NE) on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 04:45 pm:

I'm hoping it's not an 04 Tundra :-) ?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Norman T. Kling on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 04:50 pm:

you could install a hand operated Model T wiper. It will go at low or high speed and park. I'm sure it costs less than the one you are trying to replace.

My guess is that your switch is at fault, but it's only a guess.
Norm


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 05:27 pm:

Your wiper symptoms usually occur when there's a bad ground. Check all the ground straps from engine to body and/or body to chassis. Some wiper motors have a brass strap from the motor to one of the mounting holes. That's probably why it works on the bench.

Didn't we cover this once before? Check your previous post.

You can send me a check for $89 for the diagnostics. :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Kopsky, Lytle TX on Saturday, October 20, 2012 - 05:32 pm:

Forgot to mention: Test the grounding problem by running a wire from the negative (-) battery post directly to the motor body.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 04:18 am:

Ken,
The previous postings got me the Toyota service manual that I used to test my motor--many thanks (BTW, did the testing in the car, not on the bench). I will take my copies to the Dealer when I confront them Monday.
Tried the grounding thing--no change. There is a grounding wire as part of the wiring harness connection, as the motor mounting is electrically isolated from the chassis, both by the rubber mounts and the plastic bearing to the wiper linkage. Any other ideas???
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jim Kelsey on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 04:27 am:

Here's one for you. I own a 2005 Toyota Corolla. At less than 24,000 miles, the fan belt begins to squeak. It turns out that it is the pulley tensioner that has given out. Fortunately, it is covered by the warranty; however, I have to buy the belt.

At around 50,000 miles same thing. The salesman that sold me the car admits that this is a problem in all of the Corollas (I have an e-mail to prove it), the service department is aware of the problem - YET, the Toyota corporation will not call this a faulty part. Again, it is covered by the warranty; however, I have to buy the belt.

Guess what happened at 74,000 miles. Same thing - however, this time, it has been over seven years since I bought the car and the warranty has expired. Now the expense is out of my pocket, should I choose to have it repaired. This just chaps my hide when there is a known defect, yet the company refuses to stand behind their error.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 08:23 am:

So you went to the dealer, got free advice, then ordered a part from someone other than the dealer, installed it yourself, and it didn't help. So you are going to yell at the dealer?

I know what I would tell you if I was the dealer. You didn't buy anything from him, either parts or labor. The problem is with the guy who did the job, or with the part. Neither of those things came from the dealer.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 08:58 am:

Yeah, tie 2 Kia's onto it and drive the thing to Japan or Korea.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Dewey, N. California on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 11:00 am:

Royce,
That was NOT FREE advice--I paid $96 for it! THAT's my complaint--and I told the dealer why I wasn't buying the wiper motor from him, so he could match the price, but he wasn't interested.
Jim, sounds a little like the problem I had with my former Mazda VIP, belt tensioners went bad, but the (dealer only) part they wanted to sell me didn't fit my engine! After trying many places to get them (and they were around $70) I finally looked over the part, found the bearing was a common bearing held in with a plate spot welded on. Turned the spot welds off, popped out the bearing, popped in a new, heavy-duty version of the same bearing ($12 at the bearing store) and, AFAIK, they are still going strong, as I see the car almost everyday.
But back to my Toyota's problem. AAUGH!!! My big complaint with the dealer is I pointedly asked him if he did all the tests, and he insisted that he did. I now know he couldn't have, or he would have reached the same conclusions I have, that there is a wiring problem. Is it a common problem?? The dealer should know, right??
T'
David D.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 01:08 pm:

We have the same Corolla. It has 185,000 miles as of last week.
I have changed the serpentine belt every 50,000 miles but have never changed the tensioner.
It never has squeeled either.
But our Saturn needs anew tensioner about every 30,000 miles.
Oh, by the way, a 2005 Corolla does not have a fan belt. It has an electric motor with the fan mounted directly on it.
My real headaches are the 3 American made cars we have in the family.
I won't tell you about the 3 automatic transmissions that we lost in the past year with 80,000 miles or less on them on Amurican cars.
A Dodge Caravan, a Ford Windstar and a Chrysler Town & Country. Had to junk all tree. It would cost too much to fix them.
Love my Aerostar 5 speed stick (185,000 miles) and my Toyota 5 speed pickup with 244,000 miles & no trans problems on either.
Now somebody can tell me that BS again about their Ford with 3 million miles on the original engine and automatic trans, I need a good laugh.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 01:24 pm:

My son's 2004 RAV4 tranny went out at about 90K. On checking there is a known problem with the 2001-2003 RAV4 but not the 2004. the problem isn't the tranny, but a sensor that's behind the glove box that wrecks the tranny. Put in a new tranny and the shifting problem persists. Asked the dealer if the sensor was the same sensor. he checked the numbers and told us that it was different, and shouldn't be a problem. The second tranny went south as well and we had it rebuilt by an independent shop. It started acting up also and we had them replace the sensor behind the dash. It runs fine now., about $2000 later. The 2001-2003 defect had finally been recognized by Toyota, and they are reimbursing the cost,even out of warranty, but not for 2004's.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 08:30 pm:

Just be glad your Corolla does not haVE A TIMING BELT. tRY CHANGING ONE ON A Dodge Sratus with A.C.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 08:52 pm:

The kind of cr%^&p that happens in Noel's case there is no excuse for. No damned reason to keep changing things.
There was nothing wrong with the transmissions they had in the 90's and early 2000's. They get someting perfected and reliable and they throw it out and start over with someting new.
I would be happy with a good strong 3 or 4 speed transmission sinse I can not get a vehicle with an engine as small as I would like.
In the short life of the Aerostar they had six different transmissions. Two or three could have been eliminated and a transmission for the bigger engines could have been developed, but no they stopped the rear drive van and built a bigger one on the Taurus chassis with the same two elcrappo transmissions and most had the poorly designed 3.8 engines that are only good for 80,000 miles before the head gaskets need to be replaced.
You can laugh all you want to at the rice burners, I like them, especially Toyotas.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Sunday, October 21, 2012 - 11:56 pm:

Sorry Aaron but my 4.2 F150 has 250,000 miles and still running strong. The compression is the same and no blow-by or oil usage. I get 20 to 21 mpg.
You can send your money to other countries and then complain about having no jobs or poor jobs. Go figure. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George_Cherry Hill NJ on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 12:51 am:

Ah, the foibles of auto ownership...

F-150's are near bullet-proof and from those I've had when something does go bust, it is sort of following the legacy of the 'T'...whatever it was is cheap to replace, can be figured out by intuition and a bolt up replacement,and you wind up thinking it is a great machine...I still have a now ancient one that just won't die.

The best car for durability for us was the '94 Camry. Again, whatever did glitch got fixed easy, and on that one it was T-boned when almost too new and had to be rebuilt and rather than dump it after the fix decided to keep it as the wife only puts on about 5K a year. It went from the wife to son #1 and then to son #2 and had 300K on it when the youngest son finally decided having wedges holding rear windows up was a bit much some 17 years later because he was too lazy to change the ribbon cables that only cost a song.

Yes, we tend to go cradle to the grave one way or the other (I never seem to be able to part with any of my T's either) and I'll share an interesting story. Which had the least total cradle to grave cost, a Mercedes SL500, or a Cadillac Eldorado both bought within 30 days of one another? Surprise, the Mercedes! The Cadillac just had old age problems where one thing after another kept failing once it was about 7 years old, and the Mercedes just kept thumping along. After 12 years of each with good records and always factory serviced...the Caddy had to go as it was killing me to keep sending it to summer camp at the dealers for weeks on end even though it only had 85K on the odo. It was just dying of old age with welds cracking in the heat exchanger, plastic exploding, the AC compressor swallowing itself and the auto load ride acting like some epileptic 'fit' whenever it felt like it and sitting on the shock towers when it didn't feel like doing anything. The Mercedes also had 80K on it at the time so I spent a morning with a pot of coffee and figured out the cost of ownership on a monthly basis...at the 12 year mark, the total cost on the Mercedes worked out to be 40 bucks a month less than the Caddy and that absolutely floored me! The Mercedes is still going strong, and it has about one good burp every year or year and a half, but still works out cheaper than new car payments.

I finally figured out the American car makers philosophy...nothing to complain about for first two years, complain a bit in the third, and dump it by the 4th because it turns into a never ending cycle after that.

As for the change for the sake of change arguement...go buy a Honda! What they do not tell you is that they are the most conservative of the bunch and only design change what you see but what has already proven itself and is hidden is never changed. My oldest taught me that and he works for Honda and is a motorhead through and through himself. The entire family now has Honda's, all his friends now have Honda's, his own house has 3 Honda's and an F-150 :-) and yeah, we get good deals because of his position with Honda but all sure seem bulletproof. As old Henry learned, you eventually get it right if you stick with it long enough. Stick with it too long and you fall off a cliff due to marketing by others.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 02:24 am:

Robert, 250,000 miles on an F150 is reasonable and I know it happens a lot, but that is one HEeeeeeellll of a ways from three million.
Now if you tell me your F150 has 250,000 miles on the original automatic transmission and it has never been touched..........you just lost all of your credability with me.
I may consider only two rebuilds in that time but never one, no way.
I have worked around too many transmission shops the last 57 years to believe that. Unless you live in Montana or Dakota or some flat place with light traffic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Doug Money - Braidwood, IL on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 11:19 am:

Aaron, here is a picture of the odometer on my 1997 Expedition I just took this moment. It has the original automatic trans and has never been touched. And I use it as a truck.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

What's a Toyota?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 12:41 pm:

Jerry;
That's one of those things that I wouldn't give driveway space.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 04:13 pm:

Aaron, Its a stick but my 78 Ranchero went 355,000 miles on a C-6 and only got a pump gasket and seal. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 11:09 pm:

I am restoring a model A pickup for a guy who bought a new Ford Ranger with a 3.8 engine and automatic transmission.
Two weeks ago he gave it away and bought a new Toyota pickup. I asked him how many miles the Ranger had on it.
He said around 150,000. I told him he was lucky the transmission lasted that long.
He said the trans went out when it was under warrenty, they fixd it with a new one. That one went out and he had it rebuilt but now it was slipping badly so he gave it to a friend.
Now you ssmart guys that wouldn't piss on a Toyota tell me how it is that here where I live the American transmissions do not last 300 thousand miles like yours do? Can you answer that one?
In 2005 I took a friends Taurus to the junkyard because the trans was out.
They would not take the car until we paid them $60 because he said they had too many Fords already and nobody bought parts off the junk Taurus cars.
Look at Craigs List for the Bay Area. They are full of vans & cars for sale with the automatic transmission out.
I junked my PLy Voyager at 175,000 when the third trans went out (the first one was replaced by the original owner).
I bought a Windstar with 182,000 miles. It had had a transmission already. Well it went out so I junked it and bought a Chrysler Town & Country with 180,000 and the trans had about 80,000 on it.
It lasted 4,000 miles after I bought it. I junked it because they said it would be 2 thousand to $2,800 to fix it.
Then last month my '84 Volvo trans broke at 133,000. I will convert it to a stick.
Our Toyota is going just fine at 185,000 and the original automatic. The car was built right here in California in Alameda county.
Where was you American car built and why should I keep pissing my money away on American cars with automatic transmissions?
I will


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Greg Whaley, Georgetown Ontario Canada on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

Just to add to the debate, my 1995 Ford Ranger with a 3.0 and Automatic had 500,000 km (over 300,000 miles) on it when I traded it in on my Dakota. One of the techs at the dealership drove it for another 25,000 miles before he got hit at an intersection. The tranny was still fine, and never gave me an ounce of trouble.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 12:15 am:

My newest vehicle is a '94 Camry, currently at 223,271. So far no transmission problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hal Schedler, Sacramento on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 12:30 am:

Test


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 12:35 pm:

1995 Ford Explorer: 215,000 miles, original transmission, used to tow Model Ts around. Still shifts like new.

Aaron,

Maybe you're just hard on stuff?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 12:52 am:

No, I'm not hard on stuff.
If Toyotas are such junk how come I've already got 186,000 miles on it without doing anything to transmission if I am hard on cars?
I can easily get over 100,000 miles on a clutch. I have a trailer and have hauled several model A & model T & Corolla sized cars on it with my Toyota pickup and never replaced the clutch. It was still not slipping when I junked it.
I got ot used & out 90,000 miles on it. Hard miles most of them, usually loaded with tools.
I've been a journyman mechanic 56 years. when I drive an automatic I often shift down so it won't upshift on a hard pull, like going uphill.
Look at all the cars on Craigslist with a new or rebuilt or a broken transmission. It isn't only me.
I never have had an imported car trans go out, but almost every American car or van I buy looses the tranny before I get my monies worth out of it. The way overpowered Astrovan was great, the trans held up fine but that 13 MPG at 55 on the freeway was killing me.
If I could afford a new car or van I probably would buy American, but with all the trouble I've had with used stuff why should I.
And all the ones I see around here and customers that have transmissions go south before they get 100 thousand miles on them. It's a gamble I am not willing to take.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 12:33 pm:

Aaron,

If you're responding to me with, "If Toyotas are such junk....", please notice that I never claimed Toyotas are junk. I'm sure they make a fine product and from their many satisfied customers, they obviously do some things right. I will say however that they have, until recently maybe, enjoyed a "notion" of infallibility that I don't believe they have completely deserved. Perhaps they're like E-Timers: I just don't want one.

I will also admit that the Ford AOD transmission, which I believe Ford has done away with, does have a bad reputation. Don't know why mine keeps going but it's certainly NOT due to my excellent care as I have done "zero" to it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 05:37 am:

I don't have a dog in this race, but any auto. trans. needs to have the fluid and filter changed regularly just as the engine does. I have never had an auto. trans. go out on me and I have put many very hard miles on them. JMHO. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 12:12 pm:

Not responding to you in particular Jerry.
David, my Toyota manual says either I never need to change the fluid or to do it at 100,000, I forget which.
I pull the drain plug on the trans pan every third or forth oil change amd just add the three quarts it takes to fill it up again.
I Have never dropped the pan but I know I need to change the filter in there (it has 186.000 miles).
I think changing the tarns oil is important but I also think there is not a car or light truck made that has an oil cooler large enough to do the job.
I recommend putting an airconditioner condenser in front of the radiator and running the trans fluid through it AFTER it comes out of the radiator cooler, if you can call that a cooler.
I have done it a few times, the condensers can be had for free and they are LARGE.
I have even mounted them laying flat under the front area of a pickup bed and have a car with one under the rear passenger area with none in front, it's been tha way since '97. I used a small AC condensre and mounted a radiator electric fan on it that I can turn on in town, if I think to do it,
Our favorite upholstery guy bought a Taurus with 80,000 miles on it and the third transmission.
he changed engine oil every 3,000 miles after that but had a drain plug installed in the trans pan and changed to trans oil too. He put another 60,000 on the car without having to rebuild the trans again.
Now the guy that put 3 million miles on the Ford pickup and only changed the trans oil when it stunk so bad the neighbors complained is full of BS.
Now you can tell me you have 300,000 miles on your transmission but 3 million is 100 times that many miles. Pure 100% Sull Bhit.
That goes for the motor too.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 12:34 pm:

Thought I might contribute to the Toyota infallibility colpex (prior to mid 2000's)

application/octet-streamMy 1979 Toyota celica with three speed automatic transmission. LAte 78 low serial number production. Still going strong after sitting in my neighbor's garage for 10 years without being touched
toyota.docx (133.5 k)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew Atchinson on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 12:37 pm:

Let's try that again:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Robert Scott Owens on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 12:47 pm:

Well I worked for Volvo for 8 years and we changed the zf trannys out at 22,000 miles every day They were cooked. My C-6 made it 355,000 miles and was still going when I sold the truck. Worked it very hard its entire life. With so many cars made there is going to be failures in every brand. Look at all the trouble Toyota has had with there fly by wire throttles. Many have DIED because of them. Toyota has been sending notices to the dealers for over 12 years. They know there is a problem yet still use the poor system. So why would you put someone you love in one of them? Its poor judgment on your part. There are plenty of cars that dont have that problem to choose from. Scott


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Giesbrecht on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 09:26 pm:

Hey Scott,did a Toyota run over your head when you were a child? you sure hate Toyota's. Maybe you should do some research before you claim so many people have died from so called throttle problems,court cases have proven driver error was to blame , oh and by the way,remember when Ford said it was cheaper to pay the lawsuits over the Pinto deaths than to fix the problem,so don't even go there.Some time ago I came on here to defend Toyota and you told me to take it somewhere else, so in return why don't you shut your pie hole and leave this forum to Model T fun and games. Or do you own this site and can say what you want and others can't?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Aaron Griffey, Hayward Ca. on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 10:08 pm:

Aw come on Jerry, don't hold back. Say it like you want to.
That throttle by wire problem stuff was all BS.
You don't hear of that happening in the last two years.
Mine has a cable anyway.
You know damned well if you turn the ignition off the motor would die.
It's those damned black cats that cross the road in front of me that I worry about.
Now let's drop it and get back to model T Fords, the car made by the same company today that builds cars that never drop valve seats, get easily 200,000 miles on the their automatic transmissions and 35 MPG minimum on their most popular cars.
Oh, by the way, my cruise control on my Ford quit yesterday. The interior lights haven't worked in years and the rear end growls badly.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry Giesbrecht on Friday, October 26, 2012 - 12:01 am:

Amen , Aaron


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