Picked up a project car with a rebuilt 1915 engine and aluminum hogs head on what I believe is a 1924 frame (no title). Was surprised to see NO spot for a generator. Actually, lots of surprises with this engine as I am a distributor T guy with very few years of T experience.
Are the vertical ribbed pedals exclusive to the 1915?
Yep, maybe '16 T also.
By the way, there was no generator till '19.
Wow. This FORUM is awesome and you can bet I will be here for some help with this project. I am looking forward to the work and every time I look at it I see more to do!
A couple of engine pictures
That serial number is listed as being use on March 17, 1915.
You've got the best of both worlds. The larger radiator for cooling and none of the electric stuff to go bad on you ;-)
I figured out the March 1915 but how do you get March 17th?
It is in Bruce McCally's book and on line.
You need to put together two Ts! That 1915 engine is too desirable to wind up in a '24!
Nothing else I can see is appropriate for a 1915.
So you need to get a head-start on the "one model T is never enough" and put together a 1924 something and a 1915 something. Parts for both are plentiful enough to acquire everything else you need.
By the way, 1915 is the last year that qualifies for the Horseless Carriage Club of America. And generators did not show up on Ts until 1919 model year.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
I don't doubt that Bruce and others had done a lot of research to compile records for publication, another Ford publication shows some conflict on the teen years, it seems to get messed up around the B numbers and takes several years to match up again, your number comes in at the end of april 1915 on the, Ford Dealer and Service Field for August 1929.
The block has a casting date. What is it? The casting is typically no more than a week prior to the machining, often within two - three days.
John,
Welcome to the addiction!! Before you get started and learn any more about your Model T, I'll give you $100 for that extremely hard to find and high performance straight through NH Carburetor. ;o). . . congratulations on your new project
What is the "W" on the outside of the frame on the engine side in line with the intake manifold? Well, it's a "W" of course, but why is it there? What does it stand for?
Unless it is an upside-down "M"...
John,
From your profile page you already have 3 Ts in the 1920s so starting a 1915 speedster etc might be fun for you. Welcome to the forum where you will meet all sorts of folks who like Model T Fords.
Note the Mar 17, 1915 date is actually from the engine production logs and the dates and serial numbers from 1915 to the end of engine production are recorded there. For additional details on that please see the note later in this posting For Kerry.
Also, while the ribbed pedals were only used in the USA production during 1915 they continued to be used in the Canadian production into the mid-1920s. [At: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/289377.html?1350903989 David Chantrell posted Ribbed pedals stayed on Canadian cars imported to Australia until mid 1925. The Ford Australia "Dalgety" assembled car released in July 1925 is the first with the unusual (for us) plain, small pedals.]
You will find some interesting differences with the 1915 vs the 1923 and later engines you already have. One of those is a casting date (although your Canadian engine should also have a casting date on it located in a round dics looking area). For the 1915 if you look to the right of the engine serial number you will normally see some numbers cast into the block. The photo below is courtesy of Phil Mino (thanks again Phil!).
As others have mentioned -- the 1915 engine would be nice for someone building a 1915, but of course it will run fine in any chassis.
For Kerry -- you are correct that the records for engine serial numbers as well as many other items differ depending on the source. And even some of the Official Ford numbers sometimes disagree. But in the case of the 1915 to 1941 (yes 1941) Bruce used the actual engine numbers taken directly from the daily log books of the engine assembly department (USA) so they are very accurate. However they are not necessarily accurate for when the engine was assembled or when it was installed in the chassis. [ref page 501 of Bruces book or his CD [CD available for purchase and highly recommended at: http://www.modelt.org/index.php?option=com_aclassf&Itemid=17&ct=veh3&md=details&id=211 [if someone views this after Nov 8, 2012 recommend going to: http://mtfca.com/showit1/index.html and searching on McCalley and an entry should show up or drop me an e-mail and I will forward you the contact information. Click on my name the 3rd line down is my e-mail address. ] . Sometimes the engine number was included with a block of engine numbers (not engines) that were sent to a Branch Assembly Plant to be stamped onto an engine assembly that was completed at the branch plant. In those cases the numbers were still listed in the daily log but as sent to x,y,z Branch Plant. And for those numbers the engine was assembled almost always at a later date sometimes days or even weeks later [ref Bruce page 501 and his CD]. And for those engines that were assembled on the day noted in the log they may also have been shipped as an engine to a branch plant for assembly. And in those cases there would again have been some delay between when the engine was assembled and stamped and recorded in the engine log and when it was later placed in a chassis at the Branch Plant. And another exception was sometimes engines were stored. Clearly in the case a the B-serial number engines they were stored and apparently removed from storage in an rather random order to be installed in the cars. [For more information on the B-serial number engines please see: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/11-12Ser.htm ] That also occurred at few other times -- see: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/doc24.htm Mar 18, 1924 entry that says in part,
.at the new plant we have hundreds of motors that have been standing there for thirty days or more and will be going into the cars in the course of production. This means that all dealers will receive motor numbers from the Burnham plant that will be considerably lower in number than those motors received from the Chicago plant so just stop your salesmen making any remarks at all about motor numbers because in so doing they are going to make a lot of trouble for you when we start shipping from the new plant."
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Joseph, No idea what the W is for.
Royce, Casting date? I am clueless I am afraid.
Wayne, I am luck in that my Bride will let me have as many T's as I want. I'm just out of covered parking!
Hap, Lost of great information and thank you. I'll look for that casting date as I am most interested now.
Most (if not all) of what I know of T's I learned from the Carbon Canyon Model T club and more specifically, Steve Tomaso and Jim Beal. That and trial and error. It has become a passion for both my wife and myself.
John,
You have the start of a brass T. As said above, none of the "electrical stuff" (except for headlights). Good find.
Rob
Thanks. Would love a brass T.
If the '15 engine is truly in good condition, You have the most expensive part of a pre'16. I know of a chassis that would provide a good start on the rest of a car (has been advertised in the MTFCA classifieds) in Southern Califunny. Or you could probably scrounge up most of it over the next two years at swap meets and talking to people in local clubs. You should take a little time and decide what sort of a '15 you would want it to become (within reason). Then shoot for that.
Or the other good option would be to sell the engine to someone that needs it for a '15 they have. (I wish I could afford it.)
It would , of course, work fine in a later car. But being a horseless carriage guy, I just don't like good horseless era parts used in just any old thing.
Just me.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do with that chassis! It is a great start for something. Car, pickup, speedster, all can be a lot of fun!
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
John,
'Way down there in southern California is a guy who makes original Model T bodies. This is what I would recommend for you. Anybody can make a speedster and that'll just be a new millenium concoction. Get ahold of Ray Wells - a.k.a. 'The Craftsman'. You might find him as a supplier or vendor on this web site. He built a '14 runabout body for me using a nice original cowl, seat riser/heel panel, rear panel and a door + hinges and a latch I sent him. Then he acquired 2 side skins from Rootlieb and rewooded the whole shebang. Now, that'll be a restored body and not a reproduction. I then bought Rootlieb fenders and a Brass Works radiator. Also used original wheels and splash aprons. Makes for a real cute restoration. You can find brass rims for your 5 lamps and have a very desirable T too.
John,
'Way down there in southern California is a guy who makes original Model T bodies. This is what I would recommend for you. Anybody can make a speedster and that'll just be a new millenium concoction. Get ahold of Ray Wells - a.k.a. 'The Craftsman'. You might find him as a supplier or vendor on this web site. He built a '14 runabout body for me using a nice original cowl, seat riser/heel panel, rear panel and a door + hinges and a latch I sent him. Then he acquired 2 side skins from Rootlieb and rewooded the whole shebang. Now, that'll be a restored body and not a reproduction. I then bought Rootlieb fenders and a Brass Works radiator. Also used original wheels and splash aprons. Makes for a real cute restoration. You can find brass rims for your 5 lamps and have a very desirable T too.
The casting date is March 5th, 1915. A long time T friend of mine located it.
John, the sale of a 15 engine could go a long way to finance the rest of the T back to a 24 but then again I think a 15 is more desirable.
Just something to check, looking at the photo you have just posted, the accessory oil line looks to be running up hill, that would re-strick it's function some what.
Thanks Kerry. I really want to keep this engine. I'll check the oil line.
Thanks John. You have lots of options and things to think about. Also 1915 projects come up several times a year. It all depends on what you decide you would like to do.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
My 2cents, we want the 15. More than likely a truck. We have my 23 roadster, the 26 Tudor and John's 27 touring.
Our collection, however it ends up, needs a truck and we have the "20's" covered.
I have always teased John about having room for just one more after two garage remodels. So if there are more T's they need to be stacked with drip pans
Renea - Keep "teasing" and your place will eventually become known as the "Aldrich Antique Automobile Museum"!
(...."teasing",......Ha! I know you better than that.....you devious devil you......)
I predict the day when we'll see "his 'n hers" matching speedsters as part of the "Aldrich Collection"!
(......better than money in the bank,....right?)
Just kidding Renea,.......well......sorta',........harold
John! Renea! Easy answer to all your T problems... You should adopt me. I have a nice 15' roadster and a speedster and a few more. Refer to that nice drinking pic you have of me and you can plainly see that I am adorable-( I fell off the chair laughing on that one)
On a real side note Call me. I know of some local 15' parts, possibly a almost complete car you may want to look into
Thanks Mike. You are one of the local '15 Guru's...
Anyone care to wager a guess on the value of 1917 complete motor? It has the plugs in it but no crank so "rolling" condition is unknown. Heres some pics: troop
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/10pproo.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/b4dmys.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/300y2du.jpg[/IMG]
I don't even know what my 1915 engine is worth but there appear to be a few here in the FORUM that think it is worth a few bucks...
It should not be what $$ the engine might bring on the open market, but what it is worth to you and what it is worthy of, in being a portion of a re-ceated 1915 Model T Ford. If I owned that engine, it would not be for sale. It would be preserved to be in an appropriate 1915 Model T Ford.
The engine is not for sale Darel and I appreciate your insight. It is a curiosity thing with me.
The deeper I get in to T's the more intense my curiosity becomes and my pocket book follows suit!
I believe I once read or heard that there are/were more 1915 Model T's now than were produced largely in part to the rules of the HCCA.
But Mike, we already do not have enough cars to leave the one for each of the kids......
If we adopted you, John would have to hear more of, "We have room for one more" and that would be a 3rd garage remodel.
A girl friend of mine has a lift for her two Fords so I am checking this out.
Now you're talkn' Renea! The "Aldrich Collection"......ground floor level and second story level!
The HCCA is the reason for the dramatic shift in "dollar value". A 1916 (still brass T but NOT HCCA acceptable) motor (not rebuilt) is worth about half what a 1915 motor in the same condition is. A 1917 motor is worth about half what a 1916 is. The past three 1917 motors I have seen sell, were in the $200 to $300 range for nearly complete, good looking, but unknown condition.
Just my experience and opinion. I like the HCCA and the model T clubs.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
The story on this engine is "It was rebuilt about 20 years ago and never left the run-in stand."
The guy I bought the project from included the run-in engine stand it sat on and he took it off the stand, installed it in the chassis and only ran it on the chassis for about an hour and 30 minutes.
Yes, I did buy a "pig-in-a-poke" but I am pretty comfortable with my purchase and do believe that I have a fresh re-built 1915.
Like someone a lot smarter than me once said... "you're the only one that needs to be happy with it."