Installing new emergency brakes

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Installing new emergency brakes
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Odell Overgaard on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 08:15 pm:

I have a new set of lined emergency breaks shoes that I am trying to install on a 1925 and I can't seem to figure out how to install them correctly. The shoes want to move towards the wheel and then catch on the wheel nuts when the wheel is turned. Modern brakes have pins to hold them in place. Nothing like that on the T. I am stumped and hope someone can enlighten me on the correct procedure. The axle has been rebuilt and has new thrust washers.
Thanks.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 08:31 pm:

Odell ...
Mine seemed to do that as well:

1)
There are several different types of shoes. I purchased one ones with lining, as my old cast ones were broken, and worked fer poo, anyway. My new ones are not shaped symmetrically, comparing 'inside' to 'outside'. The inside (side facing the backing plate) is pretty flat, but the surface on the outside, is dished in, to (apparently) accommodate the bolt head on the retention bolt. If the shoes are flipped, then that bolt will automatically be out to far.

2) Did you replace that pivot bolt and castle nut as well?

3) I replaced the cam bolt as well. I probably should have replaced the bushing there also, but it wasn't worn all that bad, once I put the new UNworn cam in! I did, however shim out the cam from the backing plate, as the previous cam was so worn, that it's inside surface had dug into the backing plate quite a bit, making quote an un-flat surface. I just used a thin washer, and seems to have done the job.

4) Once all the above was done, I did find I had some hub bolts that were indeed too long. I replaced a couple bad bolts, and all the nuts, then ground the bolts flush to the bolts, then punched the edge of the bolts to the nuts, after a few short drives and re-adjustments.

Finally .. no more bolt grabbing !!

Hope this helps.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By James Michael Rogers on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 08:39 pm:

Dan Treace posted that the new cast shoes will hit the wheel bolts if the inside corner is not ground. I had this problem with mine till I ground the inside corners like he suggested. Find that post from him and he posted pictures of how to do it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Odell Overgaard on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 08:40 pm:

Dennis:
The wheel that is giving me fits has a new cam, New arm, new springs, new pivot bolt and castle nut since they were all missing on the right side of the axle. Bushing looks OK. All the hub bolts have been ground flat to the nuts and punched on the edge. I have the springs mounted to the inside of the shoes as that seems to help some.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 09:01 pm:

The 'newest' repro lined cast iron shoes are One Piece and fit very well. Only the leading edge of the cam flats need to be ground off to clear hub bolts.



Installed "new" One-Piece improved lined cast iron shoes, along with RM accessory outside brake shoes.



The older 'new' repro lined cast iron shoes are Two-Piece, and the castings are badly formed, they take a lot of grinding to make them fit flush.



The above shoes are the poor repro Two-Piece that need lots of fitting, the casting 'draft' is so bad that they stick out from the backing plate until you grind and grind away to get them flush as you can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Odell Overgaard on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 09:25 pm:

Unfortunately the set I have is the poor two-piece style. I got them before the new one piece sets were available. I am wondering if I need to cant the flat parts that set on the cam to force it to lean to the inside. Would that solve the problem? I have been trying really hard to keep things square when grinding them down so they did not hang up on the drum. I ended up cleaning up the each half that fits on the pivot bolt as they did not sit squarely on them. One last thought, close my eyes and reorder the new one piece ones instead of fighting the ones I have? Would I be better off?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dennis Hoshield on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 09:39 pm:

James ... you are correct. I forgot to mention, that I DID have to grind the shoes as well.. AND mount the springs inside the shoes, AND 'squish' the ends of the springs a bit. (sorry .. forgot all about the grinding part!). I also lightly ground a couple bolt heads that interfered with the springs slightly.

My, how quickly bad memories are forgotten!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Treace, North FL on Monday, October 22, 2012 - 09:56 pm:

The Two Piece are a lot of work.

One set I clamped the cam ends together and re-drilled the hole as that is also off center. But with the two piece hole, that end just won't fit right on the brake shoe bolt.

So what all you can do is perhaps use a washer at the brake shoe bolt to try to sandwich the ends together, and leave a gap by not tightening down firmly that brake shoe bolt. Run it in to try to square the two ends, then of course the nut on the backside of the backing plate will hold it fast in position, as you also hold fast the hex head of the brake shoe bolt to keep the set you gave it to position the shoes.

Otherwise, just try to make it fit.....but you won't ever get near the great fit that the new One Piece shoes will provide. Those new One Piece are just like the original, fit as well, the only thing is the cam end is too fat, and if you don't remove a bit of the leading edge it WILL strike the hubs bolts.


Comparison of the new One Piece with an original Ford One piece shoe on top, showing how nice the fit is in the drum. NOTE: the inside shoe is the new One Piece, and you can see how the larger fat cam end will strike a hut bolt.

Other that this little issue, the new One Piece lined cast shoes are a super nice reproduction part.


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