Question about fuel stabilizers

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Question about fuel stabilizers
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

Sorry for bringing this up again, guys, but my mechanic of many years (and mega-car guy) said that it's a good idea to fuel stabilizers these days with the ethonal fuels. He recommended a product called "Startron".

I'm notinterested in starting another ethonal vs nonethonal battle. Just curious as to your opinions on this practice.

He and I were in general agreement about NOT using stabilizers in nonethonal gas but I was a bit surprised when he recommended it for ethonal.

What say you guys?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 11:17 pm:

I guess I should mention that I'm asking this in relation to using in my Model T tank as it does a lot of sitting through winter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By William L Vanderburg on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 11:18 pm:

Best all around solution is to drain the tank and the carburetor if you intend to let it for a while.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 11:35 pm:

If you are going to park a vehicle for an extended time and have only access to gasohol, then you have two options; 1. drain the fuel system, 2. use a fuel stabilizer. In a short time, gasohol will result in a white powder coating inside your tank that is next to impossible to remove.
I use Bel-Ray 2 cycle oil, I have been told that other 2 cycle oils will work as well, but I have had such good luck with Bel-ray, that I do not plan on switching. One advantage to using a 2 cycle oil, is that it also is a great replacement for the lead that we no longer get in gas.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Tuesday, October 23, 2012 - 11:42 pm:

the fuel these days goes bad really fast, like in less than a year, and when it goes bad its BAD.

if you are going to have it set for a few months, it would be a good idea to put some form of stabilizer in it. or drain the tank, the best thing to do is keep your your car driving and continue cycling fuel through the tank.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 12:29 am:

I don't add anything for only a season or two and I keep the tanks quite full.
In my tractors which run only a few (if that) times a year I use Sta-Bil.
I've heard there's another fuel stabilizer out but Sta-Bil has worked real well and I have no reason to change.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 12:58 am:

Well...... I live in Denver CO and it is going to snow Wednesday night through Thursday. That marks the end of my T driving season for about 5 months. The only fuel available here is 10% gasohol. Add to that my house is the last flippin house on the power line so I have a generator in case we have a power outage. I top off all 4 of my running T's with fuel at this time of year so that I have a good supply of fuel for the generator. I use both Sta-bil AND 2 cycle oil to keep the fuel fresh. It works. I also have Honda Scooter that always gave me grief getting it started after the 5 month hibernation. Last year I used the Sta-bil AND 2 cycle oil treatment in it and had no trouble starting it this last spring. YMMV.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 01:14 am:

Hey Paul,
What brand of 2 cycle oil do you use, and what mix? I use about 500 to 1 mix of Bel-Ray and it seems top work well. I had bad luck with Sta-bil years ago, and have not tried it again.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 06:34 am:

A former Long Beach T club member was an ExonMob dealer. He told us any gas older than 30 days could not be sold in Calif. Nevada had no such law. Guess where the old gas goes?

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 07:48 am:

Oil lowers the octane in fuel so any notion that oil is good mixed with gasoline is a gross misunderstanding of the word octane itself. I recommend draining the gas if the vehicle is going to sit more than thirty days. I have had ethanol corrosion problems that have cost me hundreds of dollars this year.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Fred Dimock, Newfields NH, USA on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 09:33 am:

This might sound stupid, but I am wondering if mixing a bit of oil with the gas before draining it would leave a coating of oil on the tank to protect it from oxidation.

By the way - I fill the tanks and use Sta-bil in all my equipment during the down seasons and have never had a problem.
That includes the lawn mower, generator, lawn tractor, snow blower, chain saw, leaf blower, and T.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bob Coiro on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 10:07 am:

I use the Star-Tron stuff and after my car was laid up for the winter plus another couple of months, the engine started on the first attempt and ran smoothly. My understanding is that the gasoline we buy today ages very rapidly, so I would conclude the Star-Tron additive worked as advertised.

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 10:10 am:

The T I drain when it goes into storage.
The Jag I add Startron and fill the tank.
The other option is to find gas without alcohol. Check the marinas in your area.
I had 1/2 a bottle of Stabil sitting on the shelf in the garage. It got pushed behind some other containers, so it sat for a while. When I discovered it, I saw a collection of purple crystals on the bottom. Close examination of the label indicated that the stabilizer itself is not stable beyond two years.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 10:12 am:

Bel-Ray is very good oil but not very available where I live. So I use what ever brand name that is on sale. 500 to 1 is what I do as well. With the oil and Sta-bil in the tanks the fuel stays fresh and I have no problems with corrosion or starting the cars back up after 5 months. My T's don't seem to be bothered much about octane.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 10:27 am:

Guys: here's the story from a former small engine mechanic with over 6 years working for a lawn service. First off we did add stabilizer to our fuel cans during the winter. Because the customers asked if we did. Second, stabil says right on the label: will keep FRESH fuel fresh for 90 days. Third, I attended many manufacturer's classes during that time and EVERY one said fuel will stay "useable" or fresh enough for normal operations for 90 days on it's own. Finally: stabil or not, if fuel sits in the tank too long you're in trouble. There's no reason not to drain, and run 'till it stops, small equipment. It WILL start when you re-fuel next season. The same holds true for cars. It can be a lot more fuel if you don't properly plan on a near empty tank but draining & running is the only answer. Yeah, I know "I've started this or that after years of it sitting because of stabil. As Scotty the reporter said to Dr. Carrington in The Thing From Another World "You're stuffed full of wild blueberry muffins". The truth is you just didn't hit that tipping point where the fuel won't fire or it has wrecked your fuel system by degrading. Seen too many (literally hundreds) of small engine pieces of equipment get carb & fuel system re-builds because they sat too long and the owners thought they'd stabilized themselves into safety. The carbs on chain saws & other 2 cycles are like Swiss watches inside and they'll cost about 20 years of worth of stabil buying to repair. Keep your money in your pocket where it belongs. If you're adding stabil to old fuel you're not following the company's directions anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 11:04 am:

Hey Paul,
I buy belray over the webernet, it is $80 a gallon, which is cheaper than the price for the 12 ounce containers. I do not think that a 500 to 1 mix of oil is going to change the octane rating very much, and I suspect that the octane drops when gas degrades. I normally fill my gas tanks in December, and I have not noticed a degradation in the quality of the gas in 12 months with out any stabilizer, although I have not attempted to store gasohol for over a couple of months. One important thing is to keep tanks as full as possible, as that reduces the speed of degradation. It is my intention in the future to add 2 cycle oil to my large storage tanks at a rate of 1000 to one when I fill them. MOst of my vehicles ore pre no lead, and the top end lubrication from the oil seems to keep things running better, and it does not seem to cause a problem with the ones with the explosive dash boards.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 04:46 pm:

Adding oil to the gas of a four stroke engine accomplishes nothing worthwhile. It does not matter what brand or how much, but the more you add the worse it will be causing coking of the piston rings and carbon buildup on the valves. It won't lubricate anything. Don't do it for best results.

I don't know how people rationalize doing something like this in the first place. Very strange the things people dream up.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick Goelz-Knoxville,TN on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 05:38 pm:

I just looked up Stabil and they have two products specifically for Ethanol up to E-85.

Rick


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

Lets see. Royce does not use 2 cycle oil, has corrosion problems and berates us that do. I use 2 cycle oil and do not have corrosion problems or sour gas after 5 months storage. HMMM.. I guess being wrong is right! I will take that. LOL.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 07:39 pm:

If two stroke oil doesn't choke the piston rings in a 2 stroke engine, how does it do it in a 4 stroke engine? I also use 2 stroke oil in my lawnmowers, snowblowers, and T before putting them away for the season, with full tanks to try to avoid condensation in the empty tank. I also try to shut off the fuel to the carb and run it out if there is a shut off available. So far the snowblower starts in the winter and the T and lawnmowers and rototiller start in the spring. Maybe I'm lucky!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 07:50 pm:

I have been using 2 cycle oil in my T's for about 25 years. I have seen nothing to support Royce's claims. On top of that it would seem that a lot of us know the benefits.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jack Daron - Brownsburg IN on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 07:56 pm:

LOL,I'm from the old camp,I just shut off the fuel,remove Positive cable on the Battery and let them set. I use standard fuel and as long as you buy good branded fuel,it already has stabilizer in it. No problems here,and I don't feed the snake oil people.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Craig Anderson, central Wisconsin on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 08:36 pm:

I'm with you Jack on things that will stand for only a few months.
I might add I shut off the gas and run the carbs empty.
For longer intervals I use Sta-Bil, according to the directions, and it has never caused any problems.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 11:42 pm:

I do not know what Royce's experience with 2 cycle oil is, but I have had 2 gallons of gas in a 5 gallon tank sit for 4 years with out degrading. I was desperate for gas to finish a spraying job with a Honda 4 wheeler, and figured that even if it made the scooter run bad, I should be able to finish the job with out having to drive back to the farm for gas. The Honda had been running poorly for a year or so, and would not idle, by the time I traveled 1/4 mile to the first gate, the machine was running smooth and idling. I thought it might be a fluke, so when I got home, I mixed up some more and dumped it into my wife's Honda 3 wheeler as it had been running the same for years, hard to start and requiring the enriching valve to be opened to run, and not enough power to get out of 3rd gear. With in a 1/4 mile, it too was running smooth, and from then on, it started easy, I only use the enricher when it is very cold. I have not tried any other 2 cycle oil, but I am convinced, and have since treated 2 Ford GPWs, my T, a 1969 GMC 2 ton truck, and my wife's lawn mower, all with similar results. The gas in this area is noted for being crappy, but I do not have problems with it since I have started using 2 cycle oil. And it was not a change in the gas I was using, as I was getting the gas out of the same tank before and after the treatment. But Royce is the expert, so do not pay any attention to those of us who have had beneficial result form 2 cycle oil in gas cuz we must be stupid or something.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Wednesday, October 24, 2012 - 11:51 pm:

Gus,

I hear you. It must be very tough to be so smart that you can not learn anything from anybody.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Matthew David Maiers on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 01:37 am:

my freind runs a marvel inverse oiler on his truck, 300 thousand miles later iron seats not receding and bore is out .001"


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 01:51 am:

Matthew,

I hear results like this a lot. Marvel oil is a whole different subject. I am sure that the self appointed expert will jump in here and tell Matthew what a fool his friend is for using a method that has shown positive results.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Erich Bruckner, Vancouver, WA on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 02:07 am:

I like how MMO smells. Reminds me of a long ago S.N.L. fake T.V. ad for a spray I believe the lady sprayed into the air intake and it freshened her exhaust. Cracked me up as they both got down and inhaled deeply at the exhaust pipe, mmmmmmm.

I try to run my T on nice days in winter so rarely feel the need to "winterize" or put up on jack stands. I do shut off the gas and run it out of gas at the end of each drive by going down the street to turn back and line up for the drive into the shop. Usually dies just after I park. Thus the carb is "stored" dry and always has fresh gas at start up. My T is stored in a dry, insulated, semi heated garage also.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 02:23 am:

Erich,

Like you I always turn the gas off and run the carb dry at the end of the day. You may have hit on something. My cars are stored in dry, insulated, semi heated garages as well. Denver is very dry and there is little chance of water condensing in the tanks. That may have some bearing on the results that I have with storing cars over the winter.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 04:07 am:

For the four years plus that I have had my '25 coupe, I just park it when it gets cold here in N.W. MO. It sets in an open carport and I use regular unleaded gas. So far, it has started up every spring with just a few cranks of the starter and a quick choke or two. I guess it don't know that won't work. Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 08:22 am:

My experience with stabilizer……..I have to store 12 cars (T’s, A, V-8’s, Ford 8-N tractor) for the winter, one lawn mower and a chain saw. What I do is get the gas down as far as possible, then put stabilizer in, leave the engine running. Next, shut it off, then unhook the gas line, start it back up and let the carburetor run out of gas. Maybe I am wasting my money, but the only thing I can say is: I’ve been doing this since ethanol came in. I have not had to repair any of the fuel systems in any of my vehicles. Last week I started my 41 Ford, which has set for 14 months. It fired right up, and drove it 400 miles. It ran perfect. On our 400 mile run, it just turned 32,000 original miles


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dan Killecut on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 08:53 am:

I use the marine stable.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Susanne on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 07:11 pm:

I use PRI-G... with the new gas, it seems to have a lot longer shelf life, but it costs a lot more. It's supposedly, um, Hydrophobic, so it helps keep the water from contaminating your already crummy modern gas...

I'll tell you... if gas keeps getting worse, someone could make a killing re-popping Vaporizers... :-)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Tman - Right Coast on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 07:36 pm:

AHHM!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bud Holzschuh - Panama City, FL on Thursday, October 25, 2012 - 10:11 pm:

The previously mentioned idea of shutting off the gas and letting the engine run till the carb is dry is very effective anytime your not going to use an engine for awhile.

I do it on my T, motorcycle, outboard, lawnmower, even my gas string trimmer. The neighbors are constantly having problems with small carbureted engines...me, .... not so much.

I think it's because I run them dry.

FWIW

Cheers
schuh


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Saturday, October 27, 2012 - 10:38 pm:

What little I have heard and understood of this subject,is the stabil keeps gas useable for 6 months and Startron keeps it useable for 2 years.
I use the startron myself.Stabil let me down bigtime.IF I ever get my old Sa200 lincoln welder running again it will require alot of work to the fuel system because I filled it up and ran it for a while with stabil in it.
Ooops,it is a gummy mess now.

The 1 problem I found with running the gas plumb out of something is the needle opens and stays open.twice I have come accross the situation the remaining fuel that seeped past a bad cutoff valve gummed up the open needle so it couldnt close.Makes a mess when you add fuel to the unit


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Saturday, October 27, 2012 - 11:13 pm:

Hey Mack,
I have had the same problem with a stuck float valve, I found that if you let the gas run enough to over fill the bowl, and then shut it off, by the next day the fresh gas will soak the valve free and you are good to go. Some times a light tap on the carb with a screw driver handle is all it takes for a stubborn one.

One way to get past having to use stabilizes in gas when you park them for a long time, is to put avegas in tank when parking, it will still evaporate, but it leaves no residue to cause problems, but it is much more expensive than adding 2 cycle oil, even the expensive stuff I use.
Best
Gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 12:09 am:

Have you ever noticed on a T tour the number of folks banging their carbs to stop them from overflowing at a rest stop? The last time I had to do that was about 25 years ago before I started to add 2 cycle oil to the gas! IT WORKS....


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 12:17 am:

There you go, Paul, rubbing it in, to you know who. :-)

I haven't run a 2 cycle engine since I was a kid. What makes 2 cycle oil different from common motor lube oil?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 01:06 am:

Hey Ricks,
2 cycle oil is very different than motor oil, it is formulated to remain a high quality lubricant when mixed with gasoline, some of the 2 cycle oils can be mixed at a ration of 100 to 1 and still lubricate the entire engine. But do not attempt to use 2 cycle oil in place of motor oil or you will have big problems, as it can not replace normal motor oil.
I have questioned a lot of fellows who use a chain saw once a year, and every one I have talked to confirms that their mixed gas does not go stale in a year's time. This seems to apply to all brands of 2 cycle oil.
Best
Gus
PS, I have been using it in my T as well, and it did not take long to improve performance, but I did figure out that you need to mix it with gas before pouring into the tank, The T engine does not run very well on straight 2 cycle oil, which settled straight into the tank outlet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 10:15 am:

A number of years ago I read a study on the effect of increasing 2 stroke oil on the HP of a motorcycle. I believe they had a 250 Suzuki that they blocked off the oil pump on and mixed the oil. They ran it on a dyno to check horsepower. as they increased the decreased the oil ratio, They increased the jet size so that the same amount of raw gasoline was going to the engine independent on oil in the fuel. The horsepower kept climbing as they added more oil until the plugs fouled out from too much oil. I also add 2 stroke oil to all my engines that sit for an extended length of time. I haven't had to clean or remove a carb in the spring since starting that, but that may just be luck. I also try to drain the fuel from the carbs or run them dry.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mack Cole ---- Earth on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 12:24 pm:

Well,with my restored small engines and walking tractors I use Coleman fuel.No gum and crap and they crank right up,regardless of how long I leave them alone,which useally aint over 3 or 4 months since I got back to restoreing stuff.It cost way to much,but no more than the litte engines actually run,the saveings comes back in not haveing to take apart carbs and cleaning fuel tanks.
Sadly the Wheel Horse and Porter Cable tractors I restored before my accident are all gummed up and a mess in the fuel system.I neglected them during my recovery.So a disassembley of part of the engines and such will be needed.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 12:28 pm:

I still have the pix of the pickup from your accident, Mack. I say this, just in case you lost your copies.

rdr


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 12:58 pm:

Yesterday as I was driving past the marina, about 3 miles from the house, I stopped in and asked about the gas at their gas dock. They said it did not contain alcohol, but it cost a good bit more per gallon than at the gas station. I have not checked at the local airport yet.
The problem I have had with running the carburetor dry on my snow blower, is that gaskets shrank and leaked for a while after turning the gas back on. The chipper/shredder does not have a shut off, and it seems to want to gunk up regardless of what I put in it. Have not tried 2-cycle oil yet.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 03:19 pm:

We have heard a lot of positive feedback on using 2 cycle oil to preserve gas, I would like to hear if any one has had any problems with it.
Best
gus


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Noel D. Chicoine, MD, Pierre, SD on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 03:21 pm:

Roar, just remember that you put the oil in the fuel. I was thinking I had a ring sticking or was close to needing an overhaul with my Snapper until I remembered I added oil to the tank. I wasn't used to it smoking!
Noel


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 09:36 pm:

Another difference between regular motor oil and 2 cycle is that 2 cycle oil is designed to burn completely. Burning 2 cycle oil results in ash. Excessive motor oil consumption results in blue smoke that you would see in a car with bad rings.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Sunday, October 28, 2012 - 11:38 pm:

Mack Cole,

If I remember correctly Coleman fuel is highly filtered Petroleum Naphtha. You may be able to find it cheaper from a local petroleum distributor. You are right that it does not break down like gasolene and will keep for many years with out degrading.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Paul Mikeska, Denver CO on Monday, October 29, 2012 - 12:40 am:

I Googed the Coleman fuel MSDS and it is indeed petroleum naphtha. Coleman fuel is highly filtered so that it won't clog the very small jets in camping lanterns and stoves. I would think that you could find regular naphtha in bulk locally that would work in small engines for a lot less than in gallon cans that you buy for camping fuel.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dean Dorholt - Mpls, MN on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 07:35 am:

I have been using Star-Tron for about two years now and it works for me.


http://www.starbrite.com/whatsnew/Startron_Story_V2.pdf


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By doug hauge upstate NY stittville 13469 on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 09:32 am:

we all have our winter storage ideas, and I say do whatever works for you. I my learning, there isn't that much evaporation of gas during the winter in COLD storage. very little in my experience. oxygen is the root of evil, causing, rust, scale etc. rust is slow oxidation, fire is rapid oxidation. if we remove the oxygen ie; painting, or keeping parts submerged rust won't take place. if we remove the oxygen the fire will go out! there are still dams on rivers in the Adirondack mts from the early 1900s that are still there because the wood logs have never been exposed to oxygen since they were built. with that said, I have to winterize all 12 of my Ts, so I FILL all the gas tanks to the top. believe it or not they don't leak gas, oil yes, but not gas. I don't even disconnect the batteries. that is a pain and I just leave them in the car. I cover them with car covers, and bed sheets. set all the mouse traps, (the 5 gallon bucket with the tin can) and don't see my cars until spring. I have never had corrosion, sticking floats or any problems in the spring, or all summer for that matter. they all start and are excited to come out in the spring. inspection of the gas tank reveals a full tank of gas, very little if any noticeable evaporation of any gas. the gas tanks are not covered in scale or flaking, the floats and carbs are not suffering any oxidation due to being exposed to oxygen. I guess we all have our own theory, just do what works for you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By mahlon hawker on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 09:38 pm:

Around here in N. VA. Seafoam seems to have the best reputation.

Available everywhere, even the food stores!

Tony


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 01:27 am:

Finally had the presence of mind to look it up on wiki:

Two-stroke oil (also referred to as two-cycle oil, 2-cycle oil, 2T oil or 2-stroke oil) is an engine oil intended for use in crankcase compression two-stroke engines.

Unlike four-cycle engines which have a closed crankcase, these lightweight engines use the crankcase as part of the induction tract, and therefore, oil must be mixed with gasoline to be distributed throughout the engine for lubrication. The two-stroke oil is ultimately burned along with the fuel resulting in exhaust emissions with blue smoke and/or a distinctive odor.

The oil-base stock is either petroleum, vegetable, semi-synthetic or synthetic oil and is mixed with petrol/gasoline at a fuel-to-oil ratio ranging from 16:1 to as low as 100:1.

Engine original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) introduced pre-injection systems (sometimes known as "auto-lube") to engines to operate from a 32:1 to 100:1 ratio. Oils must meet or exceed the following typical specifications: TC-W3TM, NMMA, [API] TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGO.

Comparing regular lubricating oil with two-stroke oil, the relevant difference is that two-stroke oil must have a much lower ash content. This is required to minimize deposits that tend to form if ash is present in the oil which is burned in the engine's combustion chamber.
--------------


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By A. Gustaf Bryngelson on Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 08:39 am:

The one quality of 2 stroke oil that I have encountered that you do not get from gas stabilizers is that the oil I have been using helps to reverse damage caused by sour gas, so in my use it has not been only a preventative additive, but also a restorative additive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Roar Sand on Wednesday, October 31, 2012 - 10:56 am:

Doug,
You say that "oxygen is the root of evil".
I looked up "oxygenate' and it says: "Oxygenates, when added to gasoline, are designed to add oxygen to the gasoline". So, since ethanol is used as an oxygenate to reduce CO emissions, it seems to me that the potential is there for alcohol blends to do damage.


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