I have never removed a T engine, so please bear with me for what may be a question with an obvious answer!
Is it possible to remove the pan access plate, disconnect the rods from the crank, then remove the pan bolts and lift the engine block (alone)off the pan?
I know I'm missing something, or someone would have mentioned this on the forum, but what?
Thanks
schuh
Bud;
Why would you want to do that??????????
Just asking?
That would be removing part of the engine. Like Richard, I'm curious. What are you up to?
That's more trouble than it's worth. Because you neglected to mention unbolting the coil ring from the block which is impossible without removing the flywheel.
So my answer would be "No"
This is possible, but more difficult than the conventional way of removing the entire engine pan and all.
You would need to disconnect the ball housing and driveshaft from the rear, then disconnect the emergency brake clutch linkage, remove the bendix cover and bendix (first) through the opening opposite the starter then the starter, then disconnect the bands and remove them after the hogshead has been removed, as it sits on top of the rear block flange, then, after removing the spark plugs, disconnecting the wiring, the fuel line and control linkages from the carburetor and commutator, you can remove the block leaving the pan in place after disconnecting the upper and lower radiator hoses. You will most likely need to remove the radiator since the transmission will need to come out with the block which will entail you moving the block forward enough to clear the firewall. You may also need to tilt the body up in order to lift the transmission high enough to clear the pan and bring it forward enough to clear the body and firewall. Needless to say as mentioned earlier, it would be much easier to remove the entire engine, pan and all.
Do you have a Model T Ford Service Manual? If you don't, it is a must for you to get one and study it before diving in. Without a basic knowledge and the service manual to guide you, you can get in alot of trouble in a hurry. Jim Patrick
Bud, I've seen a number of frames where the outer pan bolts have been removed and the engine with transmission have been lifted off leaving only the pan. I'm not sure why this was done.The engine is only held to the frame by 2 bolts through each pan ear on the sides and 2 bolts through the front crank bushing. It can be removed by one person without a hoist but is easier if you have a hoist. I lift mine out with a simple winch attached to the rafters and push the car out from underneath it. You are better off to remove the steering column and move it out of the way and you need to remove the radiator but those are easy to do.
Noel
At this point the best thing to do is to get a Ford T service manual. READ AND STUDY IT!
You can spend hours and days trying to do this and that when you could have saved much TIME,GRIEF and MISERY if you would have read your T manual.
Not trying to be a wise guy but everyone and anyone can greatly benefit by "reading the instructions"!
The engine by the way is removed as a complete unit.
The MFTCA has information on this website to purchase that is a lifesaver. Do this and you will be surprised what you can do when you have the manuals in hand.
Bud, just in case you haven't seen it: http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html.
Bud, I think you are trying to remove the block without disturbing the transmission. That's not practical since you'd somehow have to get to and unscrew the bolts that hold the coil ring to the block. You'd also have to remove the hogshead.
As others have suggested, the easiest way to remove and work on the engine is to remove the engine/transmission/magneto assembly in one piece. Depending on the year of your car you may have to raise the front of the body or remove the firewall.
You need to get the book.
The below photos show three books that were priceless to me 42 years ago when I first purchased and embarked upon complete bare framed restoration of my '26 coupe. Like you, the only thing I knew about Model T's was that I liked them and wanted one to drive. It took me 2 years, but I got 'er done with the help of the below books.
There are many more books and videos now, available on this site and from the vendors, but these are still very helpful and I advise you to get them as a start to your Model T library. Jim Patrick
There are two inexpensive books to get. One is the Ford service manual. The other is the Engine by the club. Also would be the Electrical System, and Transmission. These books tell you step by step how to remove the engine and how to overhaul it. Same with the transmission and magneto. Also recharge the magnets
One very important thing to bear in mind is that the crankcase is the only thing which keeps the engine and transmission in alignment. If the crankcase is bent either to the side or up or down the transmission is not in alignment with the engine which will lead to premature demise of the crankshaft. So it is a very good thing to use a crankshaft jig to straighten it out and then follow the instructions on how to align the 4th main (sleeve at rear of transmission). You will also need to properly space the magnets from the coils in the magneto and usually best to replace the magneto coil ring with one which has been rewound.
There is a lot more to it, which the books will inform you. The work is easy except for machine work which you might need done to the engine and can be outsourced.
Norm
Hello Bud:
You may have an email from me, but the three books shown on this forum, if you don't have them get'm, they are really necessary. Good reference books.
I have a lot of the books and notes from the Forum and postings. I put the Forum notes in a loose leaf binder, so I can go back and refresh my mind on certain changes and modifications. We used to keeps notes on service problems on typewriters and adding and calculating machines. If we found a correction the made the machine work better we put it in the book for again reference.
Good luck and A"Happy T'ing.
I wish somebody would post a link about those books.
Since it may take you years before it is back together, it is safe to say that you won't remember how it looked or what went where, especially in regards to the various sizes and types of bolts nuts and screws. Take lots of pictures and draw lots of diagrams and notes of how it looked before you started and get a box of heavy duty ziplock bags in which to store and label with a Sharpie, the bolt bags and small parts as to where on the car they came from than store them in a safe place until you need them again.
It is also important that, when you remove the magneto coil that you keep track of the shims and what holes they came from, as they are crucial in re-establishing the correct gap between the coils and magnets. If your wires are basically good and can be re-used, but the original identifying colors have been faded by age or darkened by dirt, it is important to used duct tape and mark where the wires go, also labeling the terminals. Jim Patrick
Thanks for all the replies.
The question was a theoretical one. I was just curious to see if it could be done that way.
I think what I'm hearing is that its impossible because the coil ring is bolted to the block and no way to pass that through the crank which would remain with the pan.
So thanks again, now I know why it can't be done ;o)
Cheers
schuh
If you were just wanting to remove the block and the other stuff stay in the car, then yes....that's impossible....
Forget the coil ring, it could be missing for all I know. You would still have to unbolt the flywheel and transmission from the crank. Anyway you look at it, it is easiest to just pull the whole thing.
The only possible exception I can think of, would be if you were lifting the engine out by yourself without a hoist of some kind. I did that once. I took everything off the engine I could. Lifted, slid, levered, the block, crank, transmission and pan out and onto the floor as a unit.
Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2
Well, it can be done if you are resourceful enough
Years ago, didn't know any better, and without a hoist, that complete engine in the pan is too hard for me at the time to figure how to put it in the chassis.
So, did it piece by piece, block, on wood slats over the pan, and then fastened the flywheel to the crank, and dropped them together into the crankcase.
But...as you can see, no field coil or magnets to get in the way, this was my brass speedster, and it ran without mag, on 12v and trembler coils....
A bunch of us watched Don Lang put on a demonstration of how one person can get a motor out of a T by himself. No hoist or overhead support. Nifty!
The T engine is easy to remove, so much so one of our guys changed the crankshaft he broke on the side of the road with the spare he had under the back seat. This car was a 1912 the later ones are even easier to do. In my garage I allow about 45 minutes to pull the motor from the Town Car. In one of the Vintage Ford magazines there is a description and photo's of the way to take the motor out of the chassis by ones self.
Bud. No, the crank does not remain with the pan. It is attached to the underside of the block by means of three main bearings and comes out with the block along with the magneto ring and transmission. Once the block is removed along with the above mentioned attached items, the pan is just a shell as there is nothing attached to the pan. Jim Patrick
There was an old garage photo, posted by Jay I think, that showed a T with the fire wall out and the pan still in place. Obviously, back in the day, some guys thought they had a better idea about Ford engine/trans repair. Most of the other postings centered around what they were doing and why.
You guys are missing what he said: he wanted to remove ONLY THE BLOCK and leave everything else in the car.
Taken literally, if he wants to remove JUST the block. The answer an unequivocal. "No, it can't be done."
If his goal is to leave the pan in the car while removing everything else, then the answer is, "It's possible, but not advised." Jim Patrick
My question is, are you trying to trim weight because you don't have a hoist/pulley chain to lift it out? The transmission bolts directly to the block via four flywheel bolts you will notice when you look inside your engine (a little advice, pick up a flywheel wrench to get those off, it makes life easier). I took my first T engine apart this summer on a budget. I didn't have a hoist either, so what I did was this:
remove the radiator (if your engine is hosed into it, take the hose off. disconnect the transmission/engine from the drive shaft. Disconnect the engine at the front end wishbone.
Now your engine should be unbolted from the frame too.
If all is well, the engine should be disconnected: oh and don't forget the wiring aspects.
you can simply pull the engine out now. Tilt the trans end down a little and pull it forward carefully. Slow and easy is the word here. What I did was lay planks across the front of the frame. I pulled the engine forward and pulled it onto the planks, rotated it sideways and (make sure the graduation for the planks isn't too steep) slid it downcarefully sideways.
This isn't an easy job to do by yourself like i did. Looking back it would have been nice to have someone there to lend me a hand, but there was no one. I'd recommend getting at least one other person to help you remove it in this mannner.
This is somewhat similar to what the book says, but (off the top of my head) I think they suggest a chain to lift it out easier. Definitely pick up all of the T books from Langs if you haven't yet.
I purchased a lift at Harbor Freight and have removed the engine alone,very easy. Larry
If anyone needs to know how to remove the engine by ones self with without any equipment it can be found in the Vintage Ford Volume 11 Number 2 page 44.
I am without a scanner so can't post it here, maybe someone else can
Staying somewhat in topic: I have removed the engine alone without any equipment and have removed it with a hoist and another person. Removing it alone with no equipment is IMHO, easier. If you know how.
But, back to Bud's original post: he only wanted to remove the block and nothing else. Therefore, I'm prone to believe: Impossible.