My title says it`s a 1925 but not sure. can anyone give me a little information that may identify the year of my car? my engine # is 1924 but i realize it could have been a replacement. thanks. Ken
What kind of T do you have?
We need a bunch of pics.
The engine is probably original and the title got mixed up at some point. My grandfather's 27 original engine gave up at some point and it was replaced with a 22 block, so replacements were common, but it is easy to see a 22 block isn't original in a 27.
Bob is correct. Post pictures showing the car from different angles. Also refer to Bruce McCalley's Model T Encyclopedia, which details many changes by year. What's the date of your engine? If it's August 1924 or later, that makes it a 1925 engine.
Ken,
Your photo on your profile shows a Tudor sedan -- is that the car you are asking about?
The difference between a late 1924 and early 1925 would be the serial number. As you get later in 1925 a couple of items are easy to spot. During 1925 Ford changed from the four rivet to the two rivet emergency brake quadrant.
Mid 1925 and earlier see the photo at Lang's http://www.modeltford.com/item/3448Q.aspx :
Mid 1925 and later shown above (Thanks Steve Jelf for posting the photo).
Also the ID patent plate on the fire wall went from 4 rivets to two holding it on see also Lang's http://www.modeltford.com/model-t-parts/data-plates/ They list the change as 1926 but it has been documented as late in 1925.
The Tudor may also have some unique items that changed out.
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
From what I've seen, all '25s had the two rivet patent plate. Why, because I've seen '25 models made in '24 with them. The open cars have an all steel front cowl area, which used a new design floor mat which no one makes. The striker plates for the doors on open cars have two screws, not four. The front fenders have the disappearing bead, which goes under the splash shield. The top windshield frame is drilled for a windshield wiper and a rear view mirror. The tops have a single rear window. Enough?
You will notice on the photo posted above, the two inner quadrant holes are still in the frame. That is common on the early models as they were making the transition during that time.
Thanks for all your replies! my car is all torn down and is going together slow but sure.my e brake quadrant has 4 rivets,the data plate has 4 rivets. my doors have wood frames.the engine # shows a Sept. 1924 build date .here are a few pictures of my T.
Even though it was build in 1924, it's a 1925 model year. Early 25 but still a 25. It has the correct front fenders too but you're missing the lower radiator apron. Still has the front license plate bracket and unmolested firewall.
Ken, don't the wood door frames usually indicate a '24 model? Dave
My 24 Coupes Sept. engine date has wood door frames and a 4 rivet brake quandrant. It is pretty much an original car that was purchased by my Grandfather in 1942. It was confused down through the years as being a 24 or 25 going by the 20 or so inspection receipts he kept in a shoe box. The inspection folks would call it one or the other.
We always assumed it was a 24 because he called it that.
Even the title has 24 on it.
When I was started restoring it a few years ago I replaced the block with a 25 serial block.
I still have the original as the number matched the old title I had and had never been overhauled.
I came to the conclusion that it is a transition car because of the late 24 build date.
The cars that are transition cars will have parts or changes from both years. The body framework has some minor differences that usually associated with a 25.
It actually is a 25 but our family has always called it a 24.
My '25 Fordor has a late December, 1924, engine in it which is original to the car.
If there is any wood in the doors I haven't found it.
DID the Fordor bodies change after 1925? Beyond a one piece windshield of course.
Late December '24 is about four full months into the '25 production. It's not beyond reason to think that early (September) production could have had '24 parts. It happened plenty of times before. And Ford didn't even make the bodies, did he?. Tudor production more than doubled in 1924 over 1923. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have scrapped the bodies on hand for the 1925 change-over.
By the way, I have 25 Touring with a late production engine. It has the '26 rear window, 2-rivet brake quadrant and uses the '26 side curtain rods (square mount). There's numerous examples of overlap on both ends of production year cars. Assuming the motor is original and the serial number is September, 1924, the car is a 1925 as titled.
There was actually a transition between the 1924 and 1925 model years - at least for the Coupe. The changes began in late Sept. and continued through Dec. of 1924. The change to the all steel doors came in early October 1924, so I would expect a Sept. 1924 body to be the same as a 1924 model. The 1925 steel doors continued on the Fordor through the 26-26 model years and are somewhat different than the steel doors used on the 26-27 Coupes and Tudors.
Additional changes were made to the body for the 1926 model year. The cowl and windshield changed. Also, the 26-27 frame has 8 mounting points for the body instead of 6 for the earlier ones. To accommodate this, the moved some of the body cross members around. One of the body mounts falls right where the toe panel on the back of the front seat (the panel where your toes are when sitting in the back seat). On the 24-25 bodies these are straight across. On the 26-27 bodies the body mounting bolt falls where this panel meets the floor and a half circle cut out was added to clear the bolt head. The size of the opening for the rear floor boards is also different.
So while the Coupe and Tudor were completely redesigned for the 26 model year, the Fordor was basically modified to make it fit the new hood and chassis. Some of the body pieces are the same as the other 26-27 closed cars, but the majority are the same as the 24-25 closed cars. I would pick up the body parts book. You can cross reference the parts between years and models to see which parts are interchangeable.
Dave S.
Ken,
Recommend you obtain a copy of Bruce McCalley’s (RIP) “Model T comprehensive Encyclopedia” that contains those Price List of Body Parts and so much more. Please see the recent posting asking similar questions about a 1924 Fordor and what parts can be interchanged for an explanation of how helpful that CD can be and where you can order a copy. It is located at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/319839.html?1351637807 and scroll down to the entry: By Hap Tucker on Tuesday, October 30, 2012 - 06:56 pm:
Respectfully submitted,
Hap l9l5 cut off
Hi all! been doing more leg work to determine the year of my t.Lang`s shows a front floor mat listed to fit a 1915-1924. will fit a 1925 but will leave a gap at the top.i don`t have a mat to compare so i am not sure about the gap area ? would it be the length to the metal firewall or the corners? thanks. Ken
just trying to get this post back to the top. had another question on the year of my t but my latest post did not show up at the top of the list.maybe i did something wrong. thanks Ken