Have any T owners tried any of the Waterless Coolant systems on the market....I just bought a 48 Ford with it in it.....I went to drain it because of a water pump leak.....It looked like 3 in 1 oil comming out the petcock on the rad.....It's claim is it will last longer then your motor..... Anyone have any thoughts on it ??? Carl in SoCal
You are not able to use it in a thermo siphon engine. You must have a waterpump to use it. It does have a higher boiling point, I believe just over 325. But, you must have a way to mechanically move the coolant.
Many Model T owners use waterless coolant with no problems. Lang's sells it with no requirement for a water pump. Cost about $40/gal but don't wear out, will not corrode metal and is non-toxic.
http://www.modeltford.com/item/EVAN-NPG.aspx
An old thread with happy users:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/30353.html?1180915566
Jim
Jim and Carl,
I googled comments and found a few things (that I had read before, but didn't recall, imagine that ). A few "snippets" I found were that thermosiphon systems with waterless coolant may not exchange heat (cool) well in the winter. It may "leak" around waterpump seals and other places easier.
I also noticed while searching that two forum members had positive and negative information about the coolant, so maybe we will hear from them. Steve Hugh's and Royce Peterson had interesting points. Royce and Steve, are you out there?
(Disclaimer, I used Evans coolant in a car I sold Steve, but it had a waterpump. I do recall that it seemed to leak easily faith that car, and at the price, leaking is unacceptable)
Rob
My experience with Evans coolant is in a 427 Ford engine with a water pump. We found it does not boil, which sounds good. However it also does not transfer heat well, so it does not keep the engine cool. We had multiple blown head gaskets before we got smart and went back to ordinary ethylene glycol Prestone anti freeze which solved our head gasket problems.
What tipped us off to the problem was measuring the cylinder head temperature with an infra red thermometer, and comparing that temperature to the temperature of the radiator. The rear of the engine was running at over 300 degrees, while the radiator tank temperature was under 180 degrees. So the temperature gauge would show a cool engine, but meanwhile the engine temperature was at the point where oil fails to lubricate.
My experience with this is: I originally put it in my Model A. I didn’t seem to have a problem although it always had a smell to it through a recovery system I had on it. I put together a Model T and put it in that. After driving that a distance of about 10 miles the car got very sluggish. I stopped to check it out with a heat gun, it was not boiling, but the temperature was well over 300 degrees. It ended up cooking a piston. I then took the heat gun and checked the Model A, that was running way warmer then what you would want it to. My advice is, if you are going to use this, you had better run a temperature gauge as this will mask a heating problem. Giving its price and my experience, I can not see any advantage to using it.
The engine that I used in the T was not a new engine, but one that I had used in another car with no problems.
I was asked to weigh in, so here it is. First, full disclosure: I am an Evans Coolant distributor.
The waterless coolant has it's good and bad points. First, I don't buy the premise that it does not transfer heat well. It does. If there is a problem with the cooling system, however, it can tend to mask the problem since the boiling point is so high. It works fine in a thermosiphon system. I use it in my Model T and it works fine.
I would suggest using a temperature gauge, or some system to know the temperature of the coolant. As I said, if the cooling system is not up to snuff you can overheat and you will not know it.
It does have a low surface tension so it does leak in places that standard coolant might not, or leak slower. You have to get your system sealed up to use it.
An advantage of using it is that it will not corrode and is a lifetime coolant. If you are using an aluminum head, for example, you will not have an issue with the electrolysis corrosion that you will have with any coolant using water. It is much better than a sacrificial anode for this problem.
It is an expensive coolant, so is not for everyone. I like it, and I use it.
Is this coolant similar to what is commonly referred to as transformer oil, used in electrical transformers? They are a thermosiphon application and work well. Typical application is power pole transformers that utilize a large tank and cooling fins or tubes to the side of the main tank. Operational temperature here can be in the upper 200 degree range.
Carl:
Evans Coolant is in my thermosyphon cooled Model T.
No problem, no boil, no overheating.
Using the last 10 years.
I used one of the waterless coolants in a GPW with a cracked block, the logic being that a zero pressure system would not leak as bad. The coolant I used would leak through the threads of the head studs with out pressure, and through the small crack in the block. It was expensive and really smelled bad. I am still using the same block with glycol and water, and even under pressure the leakage is much less.
Thanks Guys...Where I went wrong was,,,I checked the rad. and it was a gallon down....with not knowing it was some special stuff in there,,I added a gallon of Green Stuff....I did email the company and their tech. staff told me what to do....Heck I just learned how to turn on my Iphone......I'd never heard of their product before....I think I can hear a-couple a you guys laughing out there.....Carl
For what it's worth, Leno uses the Evans coolant in all his cars. It is a lot more costly than regular ant-freeze, so make sure your car doesn't leak. Another tip: it is not compatible with other coolants, so the system must be flushed. They have a special product to clean out the old coolants. I put it in my 1913 Metz after rebuilding the engine. The engine was very rusty, so I hope to avoid a recurrence.
Phil
I'm going to add...... I wish The V8 Ford Flathead community had a Good Forum like we're blessed with...Hats-Off to people taking their time to keep our Forum Alive.....and to ALL the members that get involved in and with our "T" issues.....Carl,again
Gustaf:
Evans Coolant can be compared to synthetic oil....... will find the weak areas and leak. They do supply tablets to help stop leaks......... but will not stop leaks due to a cracked block..... don/t know of any coolant that will do that.
Hey Bob, I agree, but the Evans coolant (that is the brand I tried) would leak from places with out pressure that glycol would not leak with pressure. It was a great coolant for a high performance application, with a high boiling point, and the properties that made it a leak prone coolant was probably the best quality for a high performance engine, as it made much better contact with the engine, giving far better cooling. But the fact is, it is not a good coolant for old low performance engines in my opinion. And it really smells bad too.
Best
Gus
Gustaf:
All hose connections, metal and rubber, must be clean & spotless, as per their suggestions. Head gasket, block surface and head must be true & flat besides the bolts being clean and tight.
Just like you would do for any engine.
Bob Jablonski