Correct Parts?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Correct Parts?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 04:46 pm:

I have a 15 Roadster body and date # 315 355032. Would this date indicate an aluminum or steel hood? Also would the steering column and throttle/spark levers be brass or steel?
Thanks
Don


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Rick J. Gunter on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 05:10 pm:

Is that the number stamped on the body tag, on the wood of the body floorboard riser, stamped on the engine, or what? Do you have any photos of the body?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Donald Rivard on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 05:32 pm:

That is the number stamped in the floorboard riser. I believe I have some photos I can send you. Will look them up and forward.
Thanks


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 05:49 pm:

Donald -- The body number doesn't tell us much. Do you have the engine number? That would date the car, if it is the original engine. (In lieu of the original engine, maybe the title or other paperwork would bear that number.)

If the 315 part of the number signifies March of 1915, it is a fairly early 1915 model year car and would have an aluminum hood. I don't know enough about body numbers to know whether that is the case. Hap has been collecting info on body numbers, so maybe he will have some input here.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 06:05 pm:

It has the same date as my '15 touring. Your car should have a bulb horn, brass plated spark and gas levers, and an aluminum hood.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 06:33 pm:

The quadrant under the spark and gas levers should be brass plated, too.



: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Royce in Dallas TX on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 07:07 am:

The levers in Keith's picture are not formed like original 1915 parts. Perhaps those are the solid brass reproductions? The flat part is not shaped like that on originals.

Original ones here, missing the plating:


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 08:47 am:

Bottom Line Up Front: Ref the steering column parts: I believe there was some variation and overlap of what was used. I don’t know if any of those parts were sourced from outside suppliers, but if so – that sometimes adds to the variations. I.e. one company provides it slightly different from another company and both are acceptable to Ford.

Additional details:

Below is cropped from a Jan 26, 1915 factory photo (shown on page 164 of Stern’s “Tin Lizzie” without a date and on page 68 of Clymer’s “Henry’s Wonderful Model T” with the date shown in the lower right hand corner of the photo). Unfortunately the shape of the levers is blocked by the steering wheel. But the brass/bronze colors clearly contrast with the fresh black paint.



I would think some additional early photos (or photos of original remaining cars) could help clarify the shape or shapes of the levers. Please post and or provide additional references etc.


Summary form Bruce’s (RIP) on line encyclopedia at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#steer

Several items to note below:

The gear case was polished BRONZE and NOT brass.
The quadrant was both painted black and plated.
The earlier style quadrant is shown on the blue prints as both being made of brass and also could be made with steel.

While brass-plated levers were specified Bruce shares there are some original rods that appear to have been painted black rather than plated.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Complete items from that same location: on line encyclopedia at: http://mtfca.com/encyclo/S-T.htm#steer

1915
3500C (T5042). The 1914 column seems to have been used in very early production, with some overlap when both the old and new types appeared at the same time. The new gear case was now one-piece rather than riveted design. Quadrant was pressed steel, painted black, apparently introduced during 1914 production. The gear case was polished bronze, not plated. The cover was much flatter than previous cone-shaped type. Levers were steel with the flattened ends now smaller and somewhat round, and brass-plated (although some black-painted rods seem original).
Factory Blueprints indicate that the new one-piece gear case was approved on September 5, 1914. On September 18, 1914 the steering gear quadrant was redesigned. The new quadrant was made from cold-rolled steel and was to be brass plated. Early types of the steel quadrant were made with the serrated edge folded up, somewhat in the manner of the earlier design. September drawings show the later type (without the fold). There may have been two versions of the earlier design quadrant; one made of brass and the other of steel. Both are shown on the blueprint.
The horn wire tube was adopted on January 29, 1915 but it wasn’t until October 8, 1915 that this tube was adopted for all production.
1915-1917
Similar to previous type but small tube added for horn wire. Horn switch mounted on the top surface, just below the steering wheel. The horn bulb, when used, clamped to the column. Quadrant was painted black. Factory blueprint, dated February 26, 1916, indicates that the horn wire was changed from a tube to a steel stamping, welded to the column
NOTE: The brass plating of the rods was only at the top and levers, not the entire length of the rods.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Hap Tucker on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 08:57 am:

Don,

For additional information on body numbers etc. please see the earlier forum posting “Home for the Holidays” at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/40322.html

And yes, if you have time, I would appreciate it if you could post and/or e-mail any additional information. I.e. does your car have a body manufacture letter etc.

Finally, dating a Model T by any one item of information may or may not be successful. In general most Model Ts have had items changed over the years. And in many cases the titles do not accurately reflect the car (several have the casting date listed as the car's serial number -- that was so common that Ford changed how they had the casting date from a line of numbers to a circle with the date). I would encourage you to look at the car as a whole including its history to best figure out what year it was originally produced. [I love the true story of the young couple that purchase the 1912 commercial roadster. Kids soon came and the local Ford dealer installed a 1914 touring body on the 1912 chassis. Fortunately the restorer noticed the one owner car seemed to have the early chassis and later body. He asked the original owner he had purchased it from and got the rest of the story. The really happy ending -- the original owner still had the 1912 commercial roadster body in the barn and it was reunited to its original chassis.]

Checking your profile it appears you have recently started posting. If this is your first T -- please let folks know (or let us know again) as there are many other items that can be helpful to a new owner.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 09:15 am:

Don, I gather this is your first T. I don't think I've posted these links for you before, so here they are.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 10:13 am:

Yes, the levers in Keith's picture are repro solid brass ones. (That pic looks very familiar, Keith. :-) ) As Royce said, the flat part on them is larger than on the original ones. The levers on my March of '15 Touring are like the ones in Royce's pic.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 04:36 pm:

I have a NOS brass plated quadrant that is notched on both sides!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Keith Townsend ; ^ ) Gresham, Orygun on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 12:50 am:

Thanks, Mike. I remember now that you made you spark and gas rods out of brass. I harvested the picture long ago and could not remember whom to give the credit to!

: ^ )

Keith


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Walker, NW AR on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 07:37 am:

Keith -- Those levers are from Lang's; I didn't make them. Looks like a guy could make some, though. The tricky part would be getting those tiny holes drilled in them in the right place and at the correct angles.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Jelf, Parkerfield KS on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 09:12 am:

I made new levers (steel, not brass) for my TT project. It's pretty easy if you have some originals to copy. It's nice how levers that aren't worn flat on the back actually click on the quadrant notches.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Larry Smith on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 10:42 am:

The best thing to do on those worn rods is to simply weld up the flat spot and dress them down until it's round again. I don't like the repro spark and gas levers, because they don't look the same as the originals.
I was working on my '13 column a few weeks ago, and I found traces of brass plating at the very bottom of the spark rod. I thought they were only plated a short way down into the column.


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