Engine rebuild

Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration
Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: Engine rebuild
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 09:30 pm:

I finished installing the pistons in my engine today. The crank was turned 0.020 under and I bought four rebuilt rods that I fitted at 0.0015. I scraped the high spots until there were none and then used time saver. That stuff really worked good for me. I'm sure some of you guys that have a lot of T experience might not need time saver but I needed to know now that the bearings were making full contact and not hoping the bearings would run in because of my lack of experience with babbitt bearings. Now, with all that said, I more than double checked each bearing at three locations on each journal with plastigage with good clear readings of 0.0015 . Now that it is assembled I need to give my turning bar a little nudge to get it to turn. After the nudge it turns very smooth. Does this sound normal? Also, has anyone used stainless steel cotter pins on the connecting rod cap nuts? Thanks Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 10:42 pm:

You didn't mention whether the pistons were installed when you had to nudge your turning bar to get things moving. If so, the friction of the rings is what's causing the drag.
If you used Timesaver on the mains, the crank should turn easily by grabbing the throws. Once the pistons are in, you need to rotate the flywheel, or as you say, a turning bar.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 10:49 pm:

Sorry! yes, the pistons are installed. Thanks Ken


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 10:53 pm:

We had a fellow in our club that had problems with piston pins being too tight in the piston. I would have thought they would be "fitted" to the piston by the manufacturer but apparently not. That is something I will check on every engine from now on.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ted Dumas on Thursday, November 01, 2012 - 11:20 pm:

Did you oil your bearings when you put it back together?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 06:16 am:

Ken

what you're describing sounds normal


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 07:15 am:

I used assembly lube on all bearings, a lot heaver than motor oil. Think I'll clean the lube off and try to turn it over using 10-30 oil. The pistons rotate on the pins with their own weight, the rings have ben checked in the grooves for fit.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Scott Conger on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 08:27 am:

Ken

what is the point?

that stuff will stay put and protect things until at some point the engine is finished, installed, started.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Charlie B actually in Toms River N.J. on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 09:52 am:

Agree. The whole point of assembly lube is first time start up protection isn't it?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ken bechtel on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 08:28 pm:

The point is, this is the first engine I have worked on with babbitt bearings and want to ask questions on things I'm not sure of. I think my tightness is normal because I called a t guy and was informed that they sometimes need to pull the car to start a new rebuild.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Steve Tomaso - Milton,WA on Friday, November 02, 2012 - 09:00 pm:

You might consider that "assembly lube" hasn't been around as long as the Model T so in general, simply oiling all the bearings prior to finish assembly would suffice for start up. "Assembly lube", I believe, is washed away after start up by oil pressure which most of our T's don't have. I had a transmission assembled with "assembly lube" (the white stuff in a tube) and after sitting a couple years was locked up. I prefer oil when I do an engine or transmission.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 12:15 am:

Lubriplate on the last 20 or so motors has worked for me. "Its the film". troop


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Gould on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 09:30 am:

I use STP mixed with oil about 50/50. I personally don't trust plain oil if the engine will sit a while before its run.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ken Todd on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 12:00 pm:

I've seen lubriplate seperate, where all the oil migrates out and leaves just the white stuff behind which has no lubricating properties at all.

The "assembly lube" is probably OK, IF the engine is started not too long after assembly. I wouldn't use it if the engine is going to sit for 3 or 4 months, or longer.

Personally, I like to use gear oil, 80-90 or 90-140, depending on what I have on hand.

Chain saw oil would probably work good to, as it's quite sticky.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 12:44 pm:

It doesent matter if the oil seperates from the lithium. Itll retain the lube for a start up for a looong time. troop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_soap


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Kohnke Rebabbitting on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 01:25 pm:

I have never found a use for Lubriplate, or any brand of white grease, any place, and it should never used for any bearing.

And as Steve T. says, it will turn to gum, if left any length of time. Good lube don't do that.

I packed a dremel cable with it once, and you couldn't hold the cable in your hand, from the heat after 30 seconds of running, so I cleaned it all out again, and packed it with gun grease, and it was as good as New.

We use Clevite bearing guard, it comes in a 8 oz. bottle, and it will stay put, and has the protection.

For years we also used gun grease, and 30 Wt. oil on the top of that, and that is fine, but the Clevite is easier.

Herm.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Huson, Berthoud, Co. on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 01:53 pm:

Ken Bechtel: I have often been asked to put on a lot of seminars. Educators claim that a person only remembers three things from a seminar!!!! so I always start with a large easel. The FIRST sentence is DON'T EVER USE lITHIUM ASSEMBLY GREASE!!!!!. It is especially critical to not use any of it in the transmission disks. Lithium assembly grease will set up like cement and can freeze a motor. If you have Lithium in any of your bushings or bearings and it sets up like cement HOW is grease or oil going to get past it ? I know that there will be a lot of guys tell you how great Lithium Assembly Grease is.
DON'T USE IT

trani


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By ex trooper on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 08:50 pm:

As usual... totally misconstrued here ;-( After all the measurements come in A FREAKING FILM on the crank pins will stay put, and allow oil in on the first start up. Works on cam lobes too.
If anyone has ever had a motor lock up due to LP, theres probably GOBS all over and it sat for 20 years... speaking of which, Ill bet my tube is at LEAST 20 years old. Take that back... theres a fit up problem. I sure hope I dont get any recalls after 40 years. Willy was right. troop


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mike Garrison on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 09:55 pm:

Troop, it's a simple difference of opinion about lubriplate. I've known Will has been using it for a long time now and therefore I've never added my 2 cents when this particular subject has come up in the past. Assembly lube wasn't developed in a vacuum without a lot of experimentation by experts. And when used within the parameters defined for the product likely works fine within those parameters. I've never used Lubriplate simply because I only use motor oil when assembling an engine. And like Will who uses Lubriplate and as well a lot of others who use something else, I've never had a problem. People react to individual circumstances as if they represent a barage of test results. And in fact many times it was some other assignable cause for their particular failure. And they make assumptions based on a single observation of an occurrence. People have to learn to take any information on these forums with a grain of salt. And until these experts have performed correct testing under controlled conditions using the proper dependent/independent variables such as temperature, time and others I'll probably never agree to make a statement that something does or doesn't work. I try not to become involved with useless arguments involving oil, coolant, water pumps, etimers, distributors or anything else. Although when I do become opinionated I'm usually as full of crap as everyone else. All that being said, there's nothing like good old common sense and guy's like Will and Herm are wise because of experience and time in their professions but it's still up to me to determine how I feel about any advice given. For every good reason not to do something there's as good an excuse to do it. So please don't become frustrated with us. We're only human and we have a tendency like everyone else to jump on popular bandwagons and soapboxes shake our fists and shout our newfound wisdom at the tops of our lungs and if we're lucky no-one will take issue with what we say. And I don't care what anyone says; Will, Herm and you are my heroes and always will be. :-)

And as you know "anxiety" is that feeling we get when we realize it's important as members of society to not choke the sh_t out of somebody who desperately needs it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Saturday, November 03, 2012 - 11:46 pm:

A new engine being too tight to turn easily is fairly normal. Mine was so tight I put enough pressure on the hand crank to pick up the front of the car and then had to hit the starter button to get the engine to move. After doing this several times it finally loosened up enough that it would turn with a really hard tug on the crank. Good luck, Don.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By David Stroud on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 05:24 am:

My experience with Lubriplate was a bit different as far as "turning to gum", but it was in a totally different application. In a past life, I worked in a lead recycling plant that crushed lead-acid batteries among other lead bearing materials. The "crusher" for the batteries was basically a hammer mill that spun at high speed to break up the battery cases and the lead bearing plates. The company insisted that we use Lubriplate grease in the bearings because it resisted heat better than any other grease that they tried. The thing was, heat wasn't the problem, vibration was. The Lubriplate would run out of the seals as a liquid. We finally convinced the "powers that be" after several years and MANY bearing failures and countless hours that something needed to be done. They finally let us use a different grease, and the the bearings lasted about ten times longer. Since then I have not been a fan of Lubriplate. JMHO. Dave


Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.
Topics Last Day Last Week Tree View    Getting Started Formatting Troubleshooting Program Credits    New Messages Keyword Search Contact Moderators Edit Profile Administration