How do I make metal wire wheels look better?

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Model T Ford Forum: Forum 2012: How do I make metal wire wheels look better?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 12:35 am:

I need to clean up a couple of wire wheels. Is there a big difference between bead blasting and sand blasting?

I have seen a set of wheels that were powder coated after blasting and they looked like crap because you could see all the pits and holes in the coating. I have been told I should prime them numerous times with that primer that builds up and sand them after each application until they look smooth.

Then is it worth powder coating or will painting look just as good? Cost?

Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Terry Woods, Katy, Texas on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 01:14 am:

Dave, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but powder coating, while it is more durable and less prone to chipping or fading, will not fill rust pits, at least the powder coating used on my T wire wheels, didn't.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By George Clipner-Los Angeles on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 01:12 am:

I recommend checking the wheels for truing, then fill, sand, prime, fill more if ness. paint. I use auto paint from the parts store. I've used rustoliem in the past, but it fades in months.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Ricks - Surf City on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 01:44 am:

The only filler you can use under powder coat is Lab Metal, and that's problematic. It takes about 460F to melt the powder. A heavy coat of powder will reduce the divots.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 03:23 am:

You can only get a good finish if the surface is in itself good. If your wheels have pit marks and you want them smooth you will have to fill them and sand them flat to gain a smooth surface,

Powder coating is quick and easy to get a good finish on something like a wire wheel as the electrostatic process deposits the powder evenly so bare areas get coated before more color is put onto already coated areas. Unless you have a very understanding powder coating company who are prepared to put in the time you are going to find it hard to get a top powder coat finish.

As Ralph says a heavy coat will reduce the divots and filling before with Lab Metal may get the pit marks out but it may be affected by the heat and mess up. You could have them Powder Coated then rub the areas till its flat and then redo the wheels again but that will cost heaps and may still need further powder coating and as I said require a PC painter willing to put in the time needed.

If it was me I would go the normal paint route. There are 2 part fillers that can be sprayed on (they are basically Bondo) but they produce a smooth filled area easier than trying to put filler in by hand. This works well on wire wheels as its hard getting between spokes. I had a student who had wire wheels that had been left buried in the ground for years and had deep pit marks in the one area. He just sprayed a few heavy coats on the bad area.

Easy to rub you will see the result as you prepare the wheels. When you have a nice smooth wheel you can spray them with primer and color. As a lot of effort is required it makes sense to use good quality top coats such as 2 part auto paint. Done properly the wheels will out last you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Verne Shirk on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 10:42 am:

The surface of a blasted part can be rough or smooth depending on what type of media you use to blast with. If you use some coarse aluminum oxide, it will be pretty rough. The finer the media, the finer the finished part. A heavily rusted/crusty part will take a shorter time to clean up using some coarse media but the surface will not be real smooth. I like to clean my crusty parts with coarse media and then, as it wears down, use it to "dust blast" for a finer finish. Glass beads seem to leave a nice finished surface (particularly on aluminum) but are not much for removing heavy rust (like you would find on the inside of a rusty wheel rim) and paint. At least that is my opinion anyway.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Don Lyon, PDX, OR. on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 12:37 pm:

If you're going to get them powdercoated shop around for price. It will very greatly! The best price I could get was $120 per wheel plus cleaning time at powdercoating shops. I then went to a local tire store (Les Schwab for you Northwest guys) and they did them for $31 each!! Don.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Danial - Veneta OR US Earth Solar System on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 12:39 pm:

If you have a good tire store chain, you might consider getting a quote from them. The wires I sold last year were done by a regional and well respected chain here, Les Schwab Tires, and they came out beautiful and cost about $30 a wheel. That was about 5 years ago though.

If you decide to fill and paint them yourself, recommend Krylon Rust Tough aerosol (or bulk). It's an industrial grade paint with more pigment than Rustoleum product.

Being an industrial grade, it's not sold everywhere like Rustoleum. Check with your local industrial supply houses or online for a distributor in your area.

If you decide to go that route and can't find a local distributor, I'll be happy to ship what you need at our cost. There are two sizes of can - the commercial size 16oz and the industrial size - 20 oz. We sell the larger can.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Walt Berdan, Bellevue, WA on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 12:59 pm:

Same tire chain store $25 and change to blast and powder coat. A buddy had some done about a year ago the wheels looked good considering they were somewhat pitted etc. I went the spendy route this summer that included a primer coat under the final that put it up to just over $50 plus tax. It looks a fair bit nicer on wheels that were in similar condition. Considering how often this should be required (once per wheel in my lifetime), I'd go with the primer again if I need to go there again.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Dave Hjortnaes, Men Falls, WI on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 08:05 pm:

No tire store around here to sandblast and paint. You must be in a good spot.

I was thinking of sandblasting, then using Rustoleum 'Filler Primer' and then painting. Don't know how well this filler primer works. I assume I will have to prime and sand a number of times before I can paint. Has anyone else done it this way to make the wheels look better?

Will it hold up?

Thank you.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Richard Wolf on Sunday, November 04, 2012 - 08:57 pm:

Dave;
You don't want to sandblast your wheels, bead blast them. I ruined a wheel sandblasting it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Bill in Adelaida Calif on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 10:15 am:

A trick one or two shops around here do is to use powdercoating as a primer. They powdercoat the part and then sand it. The sanding is labor intesive but it leaves a tough surface to topcoat with normal paint. Their logic is that its cheaper and more durable with less risk of material lifting than sealing and then priming bare metal.

Bill


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Jerry VanOoteghem on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 12:27 pm:

Richard,

Please tell me how you can ruin a wheel by sandblasting it. Bead blasting is more aggressive, with larger particles, if anything, I would believe bead blasting would be the most destructive.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Monday, November 05, 2012 - 01:33 pm:

jerry, Let me start off that i mean none of this with disrespect. Sandblasting wheels is more aggressive than beadblasting. Sandblasting will build up heat in the part you are blasting. This is problematic if you piece can not take heat, such as a heat tempered spring (previous sentence may be incorrect, please correct me if it is.) Beadblasting is also better if you are trying to preserve detail such as letters or such. If you are sandblasting a wheel that is thin you can actually blast all the way through it where beadblasting wont. However, if the wheel was to thin to be sandblasted... you dont want to put it on a car anyway. Wheels are one thing you cant skimp on when it comes to structural integrity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By john kuehn on Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - 10:03 am:

Any kind of blasting depends on what type or grade of media is used and the expierence of the operator.
Sandblasting usually is associated with using no.5 sand which is fairly coarse and will warp or pit metal and especially sheetmetal.
So when a guy rents or borrows a blaster and its full of no.5 sand running at 150-175 lbs of pressure it definately will screw up sheet metal or anything else when you blast the same spot to long.
Using lower pressures and finer grade sand such as what is generally called "sugarsand" or no. 9 works much better.
Using the finer sand and lower pressure along with the right technique will allow you to sandblast with good results.
Other types of media will work fine also when considering what your blasting.
Using soda or pecan shells is at the other side of blasting when cleaning up aluminum or soft metals.
My opinion.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Frank Harris from Long Beach & Big Bear on Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - 12:09 pm:

The lighter the color the more heat that is required when powder coating. Back when I was teaching jewelry making in college we did multiple colored Cloisonné work and started with white and worked through the colors down to black. That way we did not melt the lighter colors so that they did not run or blend into the darker ones.

Some folks paint the wheel rim and then mount the tires and then mask the rubber. Then they mount the wheel on a spindle and rotate it while they spray the paint in order to get an even coat.

Wire wheels that have non-welded spokes are adjustable and so can't be powder coated because the coating will chip off if the wheels are ever tuned at a later time.

Powder coated rims are very slippery and you must hold at least 50 pounds of air in the tire or the tire will spin on the rim and tear off the valve stem.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Nathan Bright on Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - 04:22 pm:

i guess it does depend on which wheels we are speaking about, 26-27s are not adjustable where daytons, hays, mclaurens, and buffalos are.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Peter Kable on Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - 07:22 pm:

There are some real good myths coming to the fore here.

The color makes no real difference as they all need a lot of heat. If you intend using different colors on the one article you would use one with a lower melting point and put it on last. Manufacturers supply different mixes and the package of powder would have its melting point on it. eg: if you were using a silver powder you would want to coat it over with a clear. The silver has a higher melting point than the clear so it is not altered when the clear is applied. You silver first,bring it out of the oven and apply clear and reheat it after adjusting the oven temp down about 20 Deg.

Any paint that finishes up being really glossy will be as slippery as powder coat.

Could Be- What Powder coat is really great at is getting an even coat over every part. On a beaded edge wheel, the powder will go in and up under the inside edge of the bead, hard to spray in the same place, so in that case all the bead will be coated where its unlikely paint has reached there so part of the bead may be not coated with any or only a small amount of paint. End result tire slips on bead with powder but grips easily on unpainted bead. If slipping is a problem sand off the gloss where the tire contacts it.

Wheels have to be strong, any wheel that sandblasting or any other blasting (except maybe shot blasting) should be able to take the punishment given it by the blast media. Its not so much the material used but the pressure used and the technique ( you can avoid stretching the metal by angling the nozzle and avoiding pointing it at 90degree to the surface.) Obviously if the metal is thin the more force and the larger and harder the media being used the more chance of it stretching the metal.

If a wheel is wrecked as Nathan says its too far gone to use. Sandblasting would be a good idea just to determine if the wheel is still useable. A rusty wheel or one with paint on it could be so thin or filled with bondo to hide holes and sandblasting would guarantee they were good enough to use. A bead blast material usually is used to only lightly remove coatings whether they be rust, paint or any other finish. You may clean up the surface but not discover major faults such as rust holes.

Powder coating will chip off if the spokes need adjusting Yep! but so will any paint. I think what Frank has seen is the tendency for powder coat to be heaped on so its way too thick, Something being done which the original question posed at the top asked "How do you fill the rust pit marks? - lots of powder.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message  By Mark Gregush Portland Oregon on Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - 01:56 am:

If you have the wheel powder coated another thing to do is after it's done and before you mount it, clean the coating coating where the lug nut fits. Keeps the coating from chipping off and gives a better seat for the lug nut.


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